> ><http://www.unfpa.org/swp/1999/pressumary1.htm>). What's
>>fundamentally preventing us from providing people with means to meet
>>their basic needs -- capitalism & imperialism or natural constraints?
>
>Imperialism, but ecological imperialism to be more exact.
>
>>If the former, socialism is the answer. If the latter, socialism is
>>not only not the answer but may exacerbate the environmental problem,
>>in that under capitalism the poor can be simply priced out of the
>>market (as they have been) but under socialism all are entitled to
>>the satisfaction of basic needs (at the very least), the fulfillment
>>of which may make more demands upon natural resources (at least in
>>the short term) than today, even if global socialism eliminates such
>>sources of waste as production of weapons.
>
>Look, Yoshie. If we are serious about these questions, the first thing we
>have to stop doing is bullshiting about fast food being a "gain" for the
>working class. I know it is very groovily "transgressive" to talk up
>MacDonalds in leftwing circles, but it goes against the grain of what Marx
>took seriously. This issue is not about morality but political economy.
>Socialists have to explain to working people that their lifestyle is not
>only *unhealthy* in the terms that Ralph Nader talked about, but that it
>rests on fucking over peasants in places like Honduras and Nicaragua where
>fast food beef comes from. When all the water and all the soil has been
>exhausted in places like these, DelMonte and MacDonalds and Swift will go
>somewhere else and do the same thing until the planet looks like Haiti.
>
>Louis Proyect
Let's forget about fast food as it is merely red herring in this
thread. Is it possible to provide all human beings with food, clean
water, sanitation, shelter, energy, medicine, education,
transportation, etc. that are necessary to meet historically
developed minimum needs (setting aside other needs & desires for the
time being) under socialism? Or is it impossible since we are
running out of fossil fuels & clean water soon & the population is
exploding, as Mark says?
Yoshie
