From my standpoint the conversation concerning China gets loud because
of the lack of concrete economic and political data. Then ideology
parades as insight.

Quite.

If China's non agricultural workforce is between 350 and 400 million . .
. with roughly 100 million in the NON STATE SECTOR . . . then the
question becomes what is the economic meaning of state sector and non
state sector in China?

The self-described meaning of the state sector is here:

http://www.sasac.gov.cn/eng/eng_qygg/eng_qygg_0001.htm

This is its number 1 responsibility:

"1) ... to guide and push the reform and restructuring of the
state-owned enterprises. Supervise the maintenance and appreciation of
state assets value for those state-invested enterprises, reinforce the
management of the state-owned assets, promote the establishment of
modern enterprise system of the SOEs and improve enterprises’ Corporate
governance, drive the strategic adjustment of the state-owned economic
structure and layout."

Also, your employment numbers are fantastically off. Here's a report
(2002) from China's State Council:

"The employees of state and collective enterprises and institutions
accounted for 37.3 percent of the total urban employees in 2001, down
from 99.8 percent in 1978. Meanwhile, the number of employees of
private, individually owned and foreign-invested enterprises has
increased drastically. In the countryside, the household is still the
dominant unit of agricultural employment. However, with the
implementation of the urbanization strategy and the development of
non-agricultural industries, non-agricultural employment and the
transfer of rural labor have increased rapidly. By the end of 2000, the
number of employees of township enterprises had reached 128.195 million,
of which 38.328 million were employed by township collective
enterprises, 32.525 million by township private enterprises and 57.342
million by individually owned township enterprises. Since the 1990s, the
labor force transferred from rural to urban areas has topped the
80-million mark."

from: http://www.china.org.cn/e-white/20020429/1.I.htm

Furthermore, since 2000, nearly *all* of the township and village
enterprises have been formally privatized (usually sold to the
managers), so the 38+ million listed above in the 'collective' economy
can now be moved to the 'private' column.

Add it all up: 65 million employed in the state sector, 800+ million
outside of it.

Also, the ratio of employees working in the state sector continues to
decline, as does its share of GDP/assets, etc.

And furthermore, many of the SOEs are now no longer fully 'owned' by the
State. The state merely has a controlling stake of the enterprises'
shares, while management has been contracted out to

From the perspective of living labor, what is the difference between
state and non-state management if their common goal is the ruthless
expansion of value?

Let's forget about the 800 million in agriculture . . . who under the
best conditions of industrial socialism ... can only alienate their
products on the basis of exchange . . . no matter what the form of
property in land.

There aren't 800 million in agriculture. There are somewhere around 800 million people registered in rural areas, but a little less than half of China's working age population is engaged in agriculture, around 450 million.

Jonathan

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