About the Sunni Resistance, MG writes (in reply to me earlier):

Reslient, yes - but I'm not sure what you mean by "coherent" and why you
objected to my saying the Sunni resistance is more limited than that which
arose in Vietnam. Is there an organization in Iraq comparable to the NLF
representing the whole of the Sunni resistance and what is its program?

How coherent can a clandestine resistance be for you to be happy? It
has to be broken up in cells, dispersed, elements of it unknown
largely to other elements of it. Much of it doing back-breaking labor
during the day and then fighting the Am0ericans part-time, knowing
full well that it might be blown to pieces or go home to their family
in pieces.

For crying out loud, it's a resistance that is in a life-and-death
struggle with a well armed superpower. And yes, that Resistance does
have a political existence. Some of it, like the Sadrists, has
infiltrated the occupation's 'democracy' and outside of that system,
it finds political expression in ways very similar to the Sadrists,
through the association of clerics (variously translated). Also, some
of it is actually part of the Sadrist bloc in the parliament that I
first mentioned here. That is how the Sadrists have created a crisis
(not much discussed right now in the US media) in the government of
Iraq--it is a coordinated withdrawal of all cooperation by both the
Sadrists and radical religious Sunni.


It would be even better if there were a united resistance not only of
Sunnis, but one also representative of the Shia and Kurdish communities,
with a well developed program combining the demands of the popular classes,
and the national, religious and other social constituencies. The NLF was
such an organization, and If there were a broader, united, and more
ideologically coherent resistance movement of this sort in Iraq, then I
wouldn't be making the distinction.

I'm saying you aren't giving the situation a chance enough for you to
see the potential there. You are for whatever reasons and agenda--and
have quite consistently done so as long as I have read your posts
about this topic--over-interpreting the 'facts' known to us about
Iraq.

To me it seems quite obvious that it is class and social differences
that divide the radical religionists from the more conservative and
secular elements that either acquiese or cooperate with the
occupation. Can't you see the significance in the possibility that the
sort of Sunni who are fighting it out over Anbar Province are the very
sort who would agree to a coalition with al Sadr in a post-US Iraq --
and it is the very thing that the US will do just about anything to
avoid happening?



==============================================
> It is simplistic to use the categories 'Shia', 'Sunni' and 'Kurd', as
> I have pointed out to you numerous times before Marvin. First, a
> bigger divide is religious vs. secular. For example, the Baathist
> Party ran Iraq because relatively secular (but nationalist) elements
> from all the three groups you list formed its mass core. The 'Sunni'
> were as excluded from leadership as much as Shia or Kurd because of
> the domination of Saddam Hussein's al Tikriti.

Sorry, I don't recall my posting on this subject or you rebuking me about
this before - but maybe.

We have a history on at least one other list. Sorry if I got your
presence here confused with the other list.

In any event, if these identities were ignored or
suppressed or superceded by nation or class or other categories under the
Baathists - and you may be exaggerating the extent to which this was so -
it's pretty clear that Iraqis now identify themselves (or are forced to
identify themselves as such by others) as Shias, Sunnis, and Kurds and that
they are politically organized along these lines.

And I'm saying that this is the NYT and CentCom version of Iraq and
that you ought to know better if you want to make such extensive
comments on Iraq. Do you know why such a significant minority of Kurds
bitterly oppose separatism? Do you know why al Sadr will fight it out
with Hakkim over keeping Iraq together. If you haven't even thought
about such things, then why are you even bothering with this sort of
analysis?

That's unfortunate, and I
also wish they identified themselves along class lines, as many did when the
Iraqi CP was an important force  - you could say the same about most
conflicts since the demise of the socialist movement - but that's one of the
things the occupation has wrought.

Don't you get it? What separates the Sadrists from Hakim or Sistani?
It's class for crying out loud. There was never any potential in Iraqi
socialism (said with benefit of hindsight). They were US regime change
puppets along with quite a few other factions of camp followers who
emerged in the US occupied Iraq.


>
> [CJ]The Sadrists might say they had no other choice. Militarily they were
> unable to come to the aid of the Fallujahans, and they were not yet
> ready to take on their Shia opponents while at the same time fight US
> and UK troops on multiple battefronts...

That's true. My reference wasn't to joint military action, for the reasons
you point out and because political unity would have to be a prerequisite.
Sadr spoke of the need and made moves in the direction of unity with the
Sunni resistance after Najaf, but has done so less as the divisions have
deepened between the two communities. Maybe his overtures were rebuffed by
the Sunnis. The politics are sectarian on both sides.

In what system would they have found political unity possible? This is
why, remember, al Sadr stayed directly out of the current government
and only let his followers join if they so wished. He said that
democracy and social reform were not possible so long as the US
occupied and ran Iraq, and the militant Sunni agreed (and when they
did get politically involved, they more often than not, went as a bloc
with Sadr). Who consistently opposed 'federalism' in the
constitutional debates? It was radical Sunni and radical Shia,
together.



> Now they have true Resistance credentials, and they seem to be giving
> indications that they are ready to deal with the rival Shia elements...

Maybe, we'll see. You, Yoshie, Carrol and others are more confident in your
ability to determine the causes and predict the outcomes of conflicts than I
am.


I'd say stop reading the NYT and think for yourself on this. That is
about all we have left on the left, at least I used to think so.

CJ

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