Here’s a thought that I think could solve your issues: It sounds like a lot of your issues are caused by the insistence on using PaleMoon. I don’t imagine that the team does much if any testing against PaleMoon, so I’m not shocked that you have issues with it. And I get it - you want private browsing. Why don’t you use Chrome for pgAdmin, and use PaleMoon for everything else? I don’t imagine that Chrome’s “spying” would be an issue for you with pgAdmin. Are you thinking that they’re going to monitor the databases you are administering?
> On Aug 26, 2020, at 10:32 AM, tutilu...@tutanota.com wrote: > > Aug 25, 2020, 2:59 PM by dp...@pgadmin.org: > > > On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 11:23 AM <tutilu...@tutanota.com > <mailto:tutilu...@tutanota.com>> wrote: > > Please consider testing your software before releasing it. > > https://pgsnake.blogspot.com/2020/08/testing-pgadmin.html > <https://pgsnake.blogspot.com/2020/08/testing-pgadmin.html> > > This certainly convinces me that there is quite a lot of testing happening, > so that's at least reassuring in some sense. However, since it's necessary > (in practice) to create a separate, dedicated browser profile for pgAdmin > (since otherwise, it forgets the entire "state" every time you clear your > browser data or close the browser, which happens constantly), breaking the > "browser command" in a new version is quite remarkable. > > Also, it should be noted that my found work-around, to find the pgAdmin icon > in the Notification area, right click it and then click "New pgAdmin window", > only works once you are actually running it. When I start my machine, pgAdmin > isn't running, so I first have to launch it using my normal Taskbar icon, > which up until the latest version opened the correct pgAdmin browser profile. > Now, it instead loads for some time and finally opens in the default browser > (obviously with forgotten "state"). I then have to close it and then start it > with the Notification area work-around. > > Yes, I could make it run on boot, to save myself another click and some > waiting, but again, the problem isn't that I cannot find a way at all to use > pgAdmin -- the issue is that such an "obvious" thing broke. It really makes > me wonder how anyone could be running pgAdmin in their standard browser > profile. I guess they never or rarely clear their browser data and never have > to close all browser windows. I frequently need to do that for many reasons > besides privacy, including updates, freezes/crashes (most frequently caused > by pgAdmin, ironically), getting the "right order" of grouped windows of > different browser profiles, etc. > > As I explained previously, it's impossible for me to use a "supported > browser" because Chrome (and all its "skins" which pretend to be browsers) as > well as Firefox are pure spyware. I don't say that without reason, but I'm > not going to go into detail about that again here. At the end of the day, I'm > forced to use Pale Moon or nothing at this point, and pgAdmin either hangs > entirely or freezes for many, many seconds (half a minute or more is not > uncommon) if I forget myself and try to click and resize the object tree pane > to make me able to see what it contains. I have to actively remember to just > scroll horizontally or else I can say "good bye" to that entire pgAdmin > session. Which has many times caused loss of work/state for me. The same > thing happens even if I just maximize/restore the window. The most likely > cause is some JavaScript code used to "redraw" or "recalculate" the view. > > As you can see, I have extremely good reasons for wanting pgAdmin to ship > with its own GUI/webview, and I frankly don't understand the stated reasons > for why this is not done. I don't think you're lying, but NW.js (for example) > uses Chrome/Chromium's engine and should not be possible to have any issues > rendering and handling pgAdmin on all supported OSes. (I don't mention > Electron because its developer is extremely toxic.) > > Yes, I'm aware that pgAdmin can be run in a "hosted" manner, so it still has > to support "other browsers" (whatever that means at this point with Google's > engine having a total monopoly besides a minimal Firefox and Safari user > base), but then you could at least say that there's always the option to > download the "stand-alone" version of pgAdmin which comes with a nice > GUI/webview and never has to interfere in any way with existing browsers and > all the nightmares that entails. > > The fact that you, the developers, don't see this as the #1 priority makes me > wonder how it's possible that my "workflow" is apparently so fundamentally > different from yours. Note that I'm not bashing the entire concept of "web > apps", as this is what I have the most experience with myself, but simply the > reluctance of packaging it in such a manner that it can be used without > piggybacking on other software. > > I actually remember trying it out early on when it was still a stand-alone > thing, and while it was horribly slow and buggy, I never attributed this to > the fact that it ran in some kind of webview. That makes no sense to me. My > browser is an old fork of Firefox, maintained by "some guy in his basement", > and I use it solely out of having no other choice. How can a webview which > simply uses the Chromium engine (as evil as I find it, but that's a different > problem) possibly be slower at rendering pgAdmin, which was made to support > Chrome? Something about that doesn't add up. > > pgAdmin III is entirely unusable at this point, and none of the > "alternatives" to pgAdmin 4 are usable (for a number of reasons which are > also pointless to list). I thus consider pgAdmin 4 to be the "official" and > *only* software to administrate PostgreSQL databases. The CLI tool shipping > with PG is not usable for somebody like me who cannot memorize syntax, and > comes with all the limitations and problems of any CLI tool, and the last > thing I want to do (or have time for) is sit and code my own tool just for > myself. There are a number of things in pgAdmin 4 which would be a massive > pain to reimplement. > > To say something positive about pgAdmin 4, one of the best things ever, which > was sorely lacking in pgAdmin III, is the ability to mark rows for deletion > and to delete them from any "result view", as well as making edits of cells > in a natural way. > > It was probably going too far when I claimed at some point that the pgAdmin > developers are doing this "on purpose, out of sadism", but it sometimes > really feels like that when software authors do various things which seem > just beyond all rhyme and reason. I think that many users of software in > general would agree with me in that we want stability far, far, *far* more > than "new features", once a minimum working environment has been > accomplished. For example, Windows 10 is an ever-changing nightmare of bloat > and broken nonsense. They just keep piling on garbage when they should have > long since gone back to Windows 95-era polish, consistency and quality > control.
