I don't "insist upon" anything. As already mentioned numerous times, both on the list and to you personally, there is *no choice*. I hate Pale Moon. Don't twist my words into some kind of Pale Moon advocacy. It's a garbage fork with numerous issues. I use it *because there is no choice*. Why is it so difficult to understand? Has every classic "computer geek" disappeared from this world or what the hell is going on? Do you not have the faintest idea what Google is about? This is as baffling as those who insist that Mozilla "stands for privacy", or even that Microsoft does. It's like we are living in different universes which have somehow crossed. So you "solution" is to install Google's cancerware because... it won't spy on me if I wish hard enough? You are not making any sense. Besides, if you had bothered to actually read (which nobody ever does, so why am I even still trying to communicate?), you'd have seen that my main issue has nothing to do with Pale Moon and everything to do with pgAdmin 4 not executing its "browser command". I'm not going to repeat this a single more time now.
It's insulting to keep hearing supposedly intelligent people suggest to install spyware. You're a damn fool if you subject yourself and others to this. Aug 26, 2020, 11:00 PM by jac...@pobox.com: > Here’s a thought that I think could solve your issues: > > It sounds like a lot of your issues are caused by the insistence on using > PaleMoon. I don’t imagine that the team does much if any testing against > PaleMoon, so I’m not shocked that you have issues with it. And I get it - you > want private browsing. Why don’t you use Chrome for pgAdmin, and use PaleMoon > for everything else? I don’t imagine that Chrome’s “spying” would be an issue > for you with pgAdmin. Are you thinking that they’re going to monitor the > databases you are administering? > > >> On Aug 26, 2020, at 10:32 AM, >> tutilu...@tutanota.com>> wrote: >> >> Aug 25, 2020, 2:59 PM by >> dp...@pgadmin.org>> : >> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 11:23 AM <>>> tutilu...@tutanota.com>>> > wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Please consider testing your software before releasing it. >>>> >>> >>> https://pgsnake.blogspot.com/2020/08/testing-pgadmin.html>>> >>> >> >> This certainly convinces me that there is quite a lot of testing happening, >> so that's at least reassuring in some sense. However, since it's necessary >> (in practice) to create a separate, dedicated browser profile for pgAdmin >> (since otherwise, it forgets the entire "state" every time you clear your >> browser data or close the browser, which happens constantly), breaking the >> "browser command" in a new version is quite remarkable. >> >> Also, it should be noted that my found work-around, to find the pgAdmin icon >> in the Notification area, right click it and then click "New pgAdmin >> window", only works once you are actually running it. When I start my >> machine, pgAdmin isn't running, so I first have to launch it using my normal >> Taskbar icon, which up until the latest version opened the correct pgAdmin >> browser profile. Now, it instead loads for some time and finally opens in >> the default browser (obviously with forgotten "state"). I then have to close >> it and then start it with the Notification area work-around. >> >> Yes, I could make it run on boot, to save myself another click and some >> waiting, but again, the problem isn't that I cannot find a way at all to use >> pgAdmin -- the issue is that such an "obvious" thing broke. It really makes >> me wonder how anyone could be running pgAdmin in their standard browser >> profile. I guess they never or rarely clear their browser data and never >> have to close all browser windows. I frequently need to do that for many >> reasons besides privacy, including updates, freezes/crashes (most frequently >> caused by pgAdmin, ironically), getting the "right order" of grouped windows >> of different browser profiles, etc. >> >> As I explained previously, it's impossible for me to use a "supported >> browser" because Chrome (and all its "skins" which pretend to be browsers) >> as well as Firefox are pure spyware. I don't say that without reason, but >> I'm not going to go into detail about that again here. At the end of the >> day, I'm forced to use Pale Moon or nothing at this point, and pgAdmin >> either hangs entirely or freezes for many, many seconds (half a minute or >> more is not uncommon) if I forget myself and try to click and resize the >> object tree pane to make me able to see what it contains. I have to actively >> remember to just scroll horizontally or else I can say "good bye" to that >> entire pgAdmin session. Which has many times caused loss of work/state for >> me. The same thing happens even if I just maximize/restore the window. The >> most likely cause is some JavaScript code used to "redraw" or "recalculate" >> the view. >> >> As you can see, I have extremely good reasons for wanting pgAdmin to ship >> with its own GUI/webview, and I frankly don't understand the stated reasons >> for why this is not done. I don't think you're lying, but NW.js (for >> example) uses Chrome/Chromium's engine and should not be possible to have >> any issues rendering and handling pgAdmin on all supported OSes. (I don't >> mention Electron because its developer is extremely toxic.) >> >> Yes, I'm aware that pgAdmin can be run in a "hosted" manner, so it still has >> to support "other browsers" (whatever that means at this point with Google's >> engine having a total monopoly besides a minimal Firefox and Safari user >> base), but then you could at least say that there's always the option to >> download the "stand-alone" version of pgAdmin which comes with a nice >> GUI/webview and never has to interfere in any way with existing browsers and >> all the nightmares that entails. >> >> The fact that you, the developers, don't see this as the #1 priority makes >> me wonder how it's possible that my "workflow" is apparently so >> fundamentally different from yours. Note that I'm not bashing the entire >> concept of "web apps", as this is what I have the most experience with >> myself, but simply the reluctance of packaging it in such a manner that it >> can be used without piggybacking on other software. >> >> I actually remember trying it out early on when it was still a stand-alone >> thing, and while it was horribly slow and buggy, I never attributed this to >> the fact that it ran in some kind of webview. That makes no sense to me. My >> browser is an old fork of Firefox, maintained by "some guy in his basement", >> and I use it solely out of having no other choice. How can a webview which >> simply uses the Chromium engine (as evil as I find it, but that's a >> different problem) possibly be slower at rendering pgAdmin, which was made >> to support Chrome? Something about that doesn't add up. >> >> pgAdmin III is entirely unusable at this point, and none of the >> "alternatives" to pgAdmin 4 are usable (for a number of reasons which are >> also pointless to list). I thus consider pgAdmin 4 to be the "official" and >> *only* software to administrate PostgreSQL databases. The CLI tool shipping >> with PG is not usable for somebody like me who cannot memorize syntax, and >> comes with all the limitations and problems of any CLI tool, and the last >> thing I want to do (or have time for) is sit and code my own tool just for >> myself. There are a number of things in pgAdmin 4 which would be a massive >> pain to reimplement. >> >> To say something positive about pgAdmin 4, one of the best things ever, >> which was sorely lacking in pgAdmin III, is the ability to mark rows for >> deletion and to delete them from any "result view", as well as making edits >> of cells in a natural way. >> >> It was probably going too far when I claimed at some point that the pgAdmin >> developers are doing this "on purpose, out of sadism", but it sometimes >> really feels like that when software authors do various things which seem >> just beyond all rhyme and reason. I think that many users of software in >> general would agree with me in that we want stability far, far, *far* more >> than "new features", once a minimum working environment has been >> accomplished. For example, Windows 10 is an ever-changing nightmare of bloat >> and broken nonsense. They just keep piling on garbage when they should have >> long since gone back to Windows 95-era polish, consistency and quality >> control. >>
