On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 8:08 PM, Samuel Williams < space.ship.travel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry, just to clarify, b "worst" I don't mean functionality, I mean > the way the commands are named and organised. > > On 31 October 2016 at 13:07, Samuel Williams > <space.ship.travel...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Mike, I agree with "the postgres way of doing things". I'm suggesting > that > > > >> these commands are sufficiently generic that they might clash > > with other commands. > > > >> It's also not obvious they are part of postgresql. > > > >> Wouldn't it make more sense to make them subcommand, of, say, a top > > level pga (postgres admin) command, a bit like how `mysqladmin` works > > > > and finally > > > >> the naming of these commands seems overly generic > > and for a new user it's hard to know what commands are available since > > there is no common prefix (e.g. pg_<tab>) for these commands > > > > Just because things are working how they currently are doesn't mean > > they can't be improved. > > > >> If someone isn’t skilled in sql, the requests you’ve made won’t assist > them at all. > > > > This isn't just about someone who is or isn't skilled. I work with > > MySQL, CouchDB, Redis, and various other technologies. Out of those > > three, I'd say that Postgres has the worst and most inconsistently > > named command line tools. It's a large overhead for day to day > > operation to deal with inconsistency at any level. > > > > It's not a particularly hard problem to fix and thus I think it's > > worthy of some attention. > > > > On 31 October 2016 at 12:51, Mike Sofen <mso...@runbox.com> wrote: > >> From: Samuel Williams Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2016 3:42 PM > >> As a community I'd think that having feedback from a new user would be > >> valuable since as you say, sometimes when you get ingrained into the > "way of > >> doing things" that you don't see how they could be improved or > different. > >> > >> Samuel > >> > >> ------------------------ > >> > >> I’d take a different tack. I spent 20 years with SQL Server and easily > >> (almost gleefully) hopped over to Postgres and especially pgplsql and > >> PgAdmin III, from using SqlServer Management Studio (SSMS – their > >> admin/coding app). > >> > >> > >> > >> Sure, I had to learn the PG way of doing things, but really, it was a > >> no-brainer. I had to spend a few extra cycles learning the PG best > >> practices and particular way of doing things but it was trivial…google > and > >> done. The vast community has created massive amounts of examples for > nearly > >> everything imaginable – and some things I would never have imagined > anyone > >> would try to do – such that I don’t have to Lewis and Clark it but just > dive > >> right in and write code. > >> > >> > >> > >> IMO, nothing major needs changing in the language or command syntax – > it’s > >> logical and easy for anyone skilled in sql. If someone isn’t skilled in > >> sql, the requests you’ve made won’t assist them at all. > >> > >> > >> > >> Mike Sofen (Synthetic Genomics) > > > -- > Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) > To make changes to your subscription: > http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general > *Samuel,* *I believe you are over simplifying things. Simply renaming a command does not make it easier to learn or clarify it's use.* *That is the purpose of documentation. A beginner does not get a better understanding of command usage by the name of a command,* *they get it by actually using the command. In addition, I don't know any DBA that is in favor of longer command names (as you * *propose prefixing with pg_ ). The fact is, the commands are already self explanatory. The _only_ way to learn how to be a good DBA* *is to actually use the commands, and that also includes pg_ctl and psql commands. I agree that GUI tools make it easier to learn,* *but is essential to learn the command line tools and how to use. So again, it is not the name that is important, but the actual usage.* -- *Melvin Davidson* I reserve the right to fantasize. Whether or not you wish to share my fantasy is entirely up to you.
