On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 12:20 PM, stepharo <steph...@free.fr> wrote: > Ben, > > I'm sad about your decision and I think that it is a bit biaised against > me. > Your statements are your point of view and I will not argue with you. > > Now for the others I got a disagreement on the rename of ValueHolder into > ReactiveVariable (see my reasons below) > as referred here > - https://github.com/spec-framework/spec/issues/16 > - https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?13824
I let you judge. > This thread is also useful and Nice raises the legacy issue: http://forum.world.st/COTDC-108-NewValueHolder-td4738066.html > For me the picture at the end of https://pharo.fogbugz.com/ > default.asp?13824 tells a lot on your state of mind and I do not think > that this is a > good state of mind to work in an open-source community. > Would there be a way to get a two-way apology/shake of hands by getting carried too far on a minor concern and move on from there? Feelings have been hurt. No one ever heals from misplaced pride and ego issues. Life is short. > I think that we can have disagreements with other people and we can > discuss but it seems that it became difficult to discuss with you recently > and this is sad. (Members of the rmod team still did not get why you left > the team without saying bye to them). > > Here are my reasons: > > - I do not want that people can say that innovation in Pharo is just > by renaming existing concepts. The concept of ValueHolder is the basis of > VisualWorks. Spec is > influenced by the application model of VisualWorks and valueHolder. So > using this name is recognizing its influence. When people using VW will > come to Pharo they > should not think that too and they should not get lost. > > - Stephan Eggermont mentioned in addition that > - Reactive variable is a concept from reactive programming. For > the record > - Value Holder is a pattern described by Bobby Woolf in 1994 in > http://c2.com/ppr/vmodels.html and referred to in much of the pattern > literature. > > - The books of X. Briffault, Bernard Horan, Tim Howard, Ivan Tomek, > plus all the tutorial and docs of VisualWorks are using ValueHolder. > Probably more but I did not have the time to check. > > - I programmed since some of you in VW since 1998 and telling that > the books we used are obsolete does not help because there are still > accurate. > > - Now if Spec would be an external library that can be loaded in > Pharo, I would not care and you could use any name want. But Spec is part > of Pharo and Spec is > based on my ideas too. So I would a bit of care to be taken. > > I imagine that you can understand my point. I really wish I would not have > to write such mail. I'm immensely sad. > There is a powerful movement going on with all things "Reactive". (Meteor comes to mind). Of course, ppl want to get these things. Especially in the UI space like Spec. Younger guns are of course drawn to it. It is hopeless to think that there will be no tension there. And yes, we are a kind of fashion industry. Isn't Pharo going to be innovative and taking in the new stuff ? ValueHolder is a known thing. It is frankly not more sensical that ReactiveVariable. Of course, now, we understand it. But when it first started, it could have been a lot of other names. In Java, it is an interface... http://docs.oracle.com/javaee/6/api/javax/faces/component/ValueHolder.html Look at Seaside's DynamicVariables... not that super clear when encountered at first. Are they really what Lisp calls Dynamic Variables? In 3.0 NewValueHolder is with this in the class comment: / ! \ IMPORTANT / ! \ NewValueHolder will soon be replaced by ReactiveVariable ============================================= Within Spec itself, NewValueHolder has been renamed to ReactiveVariable (during the beta phase of Pharo 3). Since Pharo 3 was already in beta, NewValueHolder has been kept untouched. For new code (and all code in future versions of Pharo), use the following two hook methods: asReactiveVariable - use wherever you would have used asValueHolder, which will soon be deprecated. For now, it returns a NewValueHolder. In the future it will return a (polymorphic) ReactiveVariable selectionReactiveVariable - as above, returns a SelectionValueHolder for now. This extension method allows the two different packages to coexist without having direct references from the Spec model. ... A variable that emits announcements when changed looks quite reactive indeed. Of course a couple of things are using the NewValueHolder (Roassal2Spec, GT-Inspector) But subclasses of NewValueHolder: CollectionValueHolder, DictonaryValueHolder, IdentityNewValueHolder (yikes!), SelectionValueHolder This is confusing. At the same time, none of this kind of thing ever prevented progress. I guess you can remember the dual hierarchies in previous version of Pharo... Pharo itself came to life because we wanted progress. Now, we attract people who want to do things differently. And then are surprised that they want to do just that. Who got named "Random Refactorers"? Remember that? And calling people names? https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/squeak/conversations/messages/109404 > Related links: > - https://github.com/spec-framework/spec/issues/16 > - https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?13824 > > > Yeah, the pic at the end is an ad hominem. There is a ton of such things. http://coolhaus.de/art-of-controversy/ Too bad we ended up on http://coolhaus.de/art-of-controversy/erist38.htm so fast. On Spec itself, we got good stuff. Like docs. http://spec.st/ And getting this to go GPLv3 is going to hurt. https://github.com/spec-framework/spec/blob/master/LICENSE-GPL3 MIT is a big plus for Pharo tech. This is a bad precedent. Phil > > > > On 18/8/14 08:38, Benjamin wrote: > >> Hello guys, >> >> I am sending this email to explain why I am quiting the Pharo community, >> as well as the Smalltalk community. >> >> I can not bear Stephane Ducasse's behavior anymore whether at a public >> level or a private level. >> >> It seems that his ego is preventing him from being able to have a >> discussion >> without overreacting, being agressive, or insulting. >> >> I can not approve how Stephane is constantly talking behind my back to >> unleash >> his irrationnal wrath and to provide his very own version of the facts. >> >> I can not see how this can lead to a peaceful and respectful community >> where we can all have fun building a future. >> >> Therefore I will not be part of this project anymore, since the way >> Stephane >> is acting is taking away all the fun I can have interacting with all of >> you. >> >> It was a hard decision to take, but I can not be part of a community led >> by someone whose behaviour is going against all my principles. >> >> I wish to all of you to have fun, and keep me in touch >> if you want to have a beer someday ;) >> >> Ben >> >> > >
