On 10/14/2015 11:01 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
Robert,
As far as I can remember, the problem of substitutions at
materialziation time was because... as you may have read, Fuel first
serializes "objects" and then the references. At materialization, it
first creates the objects and then, on a second step, sets the
references betwen objects. So the problem was WHERE to place the hook,
at which point in time. If we do it just after objects were created,
then the substitution code would NOT have access to any of the instVars
of that object. If we do it AFTER objects creation and after objects
references, then there is no easy way to "substitute" which doesn't
involve #become: (because the graph is already constructed) And you know
that #become: is still terrible slow because it scans full memory. That
will change in Spur.
The trick I learned from Gemstone is to use forwarding proxies, looking
up into the FLobjectId dictionary (decoder>>objects?) when stitching the
references. When you copy the proxies on substitution, it stitches
normally at reference time.
As for Marea and Ghost,
Ghost proxies paper: https://hal.inria.fr/hal-01081236/document
Current Ghost repo: http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~CAR/Ghost
Marea paper: http://www.jot.fm/issues/issue_2013_01/article2.pdf
Current repo: http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/Marea.html
And finally, my PhD thesis:
https://tel.archives-ouvertes.fr/tel-00764991/document
Nicely done, sir. I'll check them out, thankyou.
In Marea I needed custom clusters for my proxies because the serializer
itself sends messages to the objects being serialized. My proxies would
bring back graphs from a secondary memory. So if I was serializing a
graph that had proxies already, I didn't want that. So I hooked my
custom cluster for proxies that send only a few special messages to the
proxy that these understand and answer rather than intercept those
messages.
As for how to extend Fuel for this, I recommend to check the code of
Marea. See categories 'Marea-Serializers' and 'Marea-Proxies'.
I have a Marea one click here:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xp8jzyypmz0898j/AACRdHno6V7UfhaJ1ofTPPXva?dl=0
Cheers,
thanks so much ^^
Robert
On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 11:40 AM, Robert Withers
<robert.w.with...@gmail.com <mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Good morning, Max. Thank you for the example. I got a little
confused, between migrations and substitutions. My issue with no-arg
blocks, I believe, is the inability to access my scope object to
maintain the object tables.
I'm attempting to write my own Materializer, Decoder and
Materialization. At the moment, I'm just going to walk the graph,
testing and do #becomes:. See how well that works when I get a test.
It's really good to know about that other list.
thanks so much ^^
Robert
On 10/14/2015 04:15 AM, Max Leske wrote:
BTW, there is a dedicated Fuel mailing list:
pharo-f...@lists.gforge.inria.fr
<mailto:pharo-f...@lists.gforge.inria.fr>
<mailto:pharo-f...@lists.gforge.inria.fr
<mailto:pharo-f...@lists.gforge.inria.fr>>
Max
On 14 Oct 2015, at 09:45, Max Leske <maxle...@gmail.com
<mailto:maxle...@gmail.com>
<mailto:maxle...@gmail.com <mailto:maxle...@gmail.com>>> wrote:
On 14 Oct 2015, at 04:39, Robert Withers
<robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>>> wrote:
On 10/13/2015 09:43 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 10:33 PM, Robert Withers
<robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>>> wrote:
Hi Mariano,
This presents me with a big challenge, then. I
read the docs and
explored the code and the only other aspect not
mentioned, beyond
instance creation (#fuelNew #fuelNew:) and
postMaterialization
(#fuelAfterMaterialization), is migrations.
However, migration only
allows for instanceVar mappings, no code blocks.
What do you mean that migrations only allows instVar
mappings , and no
code blocks? I mean, what do you mean by code blocks?
Sounds to me like this (see FuelOutStackDebuAction):
serializeTestFailureContext: aContext toFileNamed: aFilename
| serializer |
serializer := FLSerializer newDefault.
self encodeDebugInformationOn: serializer.
serializer addPostMaterializationAction: [ :materialization |
Smalltalk tools debugger
openOn: Processor activeProcess
context: materialization root
label: 'External stack'
contents: nil
fullView: false ].
serializer
" use the sender context, generally the current context is not
interesting"
serialize: aContext
toFileNamed: aFilename
This stores a block in the serialization which is evaluated
after
materialization. The only requirement is that it’s a clean
block (no
closure!).
We also support class renames. This is here:
http://rmod.inria.fr/web/software/Fuel/Version1.9/Documentation/Migration?_s=Pvs4DYqPRjfEy8sg&_k=X6ltJu7FDSxumm4X&_n&22
Which kind of migration example you have in mind
that would not be
supported? An example would help.
Well, my pics will demonstrate. I am interested in doing
more than
mappping ivars or a class rename. I want to do a total
substitution,
then a further substitution on the receiving, import side:
Vat1: anObject (Class A) ---> On wire: desc (Descriptor)
---> Vat2:
aProxy (Class FarERef)
A desc is substituted for a PassByProxy object, then a
FarERef is
substituted for the desc.
#fuelAccept: is a serialization side method.
If Fuel supports substitution on serialization, I
don't understand
why no substitution support on materialization.
There was a reason, which I cannot remember
completely. Maybe Martin or
Max can remember.
It seems your focus was pickling to disk then back. My
focus is
distributed proxy graphs, which has different use cases.
I am definitely going to use the world-class Fuel
binary
serialization system. However, I find myself
needing to extend Fuel
to support substitution on materialization.
Perhaps the solution is
a custom decoder.
I have made custom clusters for example for my Ghost
proxies of Marea
system. It was a perfect example of how I could
extent Fuel besides the
common hooks. Fuel provides many places for
extending , like clusters,
analyzer, etc
Right on, exactly! Could you tell me more about your
Ghost proxies
and Marea, please? As well, could you mention how you
select a custom
cluster on the serialization side?
thanks so much ^^
Robert
No, a bit more. It looks like I need a new
FLSubstitutePointerObjectCluster, write them on
serialization with
the substitute, then do unsubstitution on
materialization, since the
cluster controls materialization and not the decoder.
Does this approach seem sound to you, from a you
know architecture
and design approach?
There was an issue. Hope other can remember. If not,
I will try to
explan what I remember tomorrow.
thanks so much ^^
Robert
On 10/13/2015 04:49 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
No, unfortunately, as far as I can remember,
we do not have
that. There
are another hooks you may use but only in
certain scenarios
(#fuelNew,
#fuelAfterMaterialization, global sends,
etc). But everything is
listed
in
http://rmod.inria.fr/web/software/Fuel/Version1.9/Documentation/CustomizingGraph
so if you didn't find anything of help in
there there are
chances
there isn't anything.
Cheers,
On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 5:30 PM, Robert Withers
<robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>>>> wrote:
Yes, I meant dynamic substitution on
materialization, to
use the
correct terminology.
thanks,
Robert
On 10/13/2015 11:40 AM, Max Leske wrote:
On 13 Oct 2015, at 17:16, Robert
Withers
<robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>>>> wrote:
Every extra source helps, thank
you. I see how to do
non-stream substitutions on
materializations, but the
documentation did not indicate a
way to do non-stream
substitutions on serialization.
Is it possible?
I don’t understand what you mean by
“non-stream”. Could
you give
an example?
thanks,
Robert
On 10/13/2015 09:00 AM, Mariano
Martinez Peck wrote:
Hi Robert,
As for the documentation,
you have LOTS of
tests, you
have the chapter
Torsten pasted, you have
this documentation:
http://rmod.inria.fr/web/software/Fuel
But also, as for internals,
there is a journal
paper we
wrote:
http://rmod.lille.inria.fr/archives/papers/Dias12a-SPE-Fuel.pdf
Let us know how it goes,
On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 6:00
AM, Torsten Bergmann
<asta...@gmx.de
<mailto:asta...@gmx.de> <mailto:asta...@gmx.de
<mailto:asta...@gmx.de>>
<mailto:asta...@gmx.de <mailto:asta...@gmx.de>>
<mailto:asta...@gmx.de
<mailto:asta...@gmx.de> <mailto:asta...@gmx.de
<mailto:asta...@gmx.de>>>
<mailto:asta...@gmx.de
<mailto:asta...@gmx.de> <mailto:asta...@gmx.de
<mailto:asta...@gmx.de>>
<mailto:asta...@gmx.de
<mailto:asta...@gmx.de> <mailto:asta...@gmx.de
<mailto:asta...@gmx.de>>>>> wrote:
Hi Robert,
Also checkout the
chapter on Fuel in Pharo
Enterprise book:
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Books/job/EnterprisePharoBook/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/book-result/EnterprisePharo-A4.pdf
Bye
Torsten
Gesendet: Dienstag, 13. Oktober 2015 um
09:44 Uhr
Von: "Robert Withers"
<robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>>>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>>>>>
An: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org
<mailto:pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org>
<mailto:pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org
<mailto:pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org>>
<mailto:pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org
<mailto:pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org>>
<mailto:pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org
<mailto:pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org>
<mailto:pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org
<mailto:pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org>>>
<mailto:pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org
<mailto:pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org>
<mailto:pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org
<mailto:pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org>>
<mailto:pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org
<mailto:pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org>
<mailto:pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org
<mailto:pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org>>>>
Betreff: Re: [Pharo-dev] binary
serialization
Yes, I have to do object substitutions.
Thanks
for the link!
thanks,
Robert
On 10/13/2015 03:43 AM, Max Leske wrote:
On 13 Oct 2015, at 09:40, Robert Withers
<robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>>>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>>>>> wrote:
Sven and Torsten, that's a binary
serialization library! It
will take time to learn
it and how to use
mappers.
What is the format; is it language
neutral?
For quick serialization you don’t
need to do
anything. It works
for (almost) all
objects. Only if you
want to
exclude things or
treat some objects in a
special way, you
will need
to do some stuff.
Documentation:
http://rmod.inria.fr/web/software/Fuel.
thanks,
Robert
On 10/13/2015 01:21 AM, Sven Van
Caekenberghe
wrote:
Yes, it is called FUEL and it is a
standard
part of the
image. See FLSerializer
and FLMaterializer.
On 13 Oct 2015, at 06:59, Robert
Withers
<robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>>>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com
<mailto:robert.w.with...@gmail.com>>>>> wrote:
Does Pharo have stream classes to
binary
de/serialize an
object, such that the
protocol accepts an
object as
an argument and
converts it to a byteArray?
--
thanks,
Robert
--
Mariano
http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
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http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
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http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
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