Hi Stef, I think that you are raising a valid point, and I actually agree with it.
But I think there is another side of the coin as well. I think that right now we are in between worlds and this is not quite beneficial. Switching to GitHub is a significant effort, and treating it as business as usual will not work. That is why I think it is so important that we committed to the move for Pharo 7 and that we invest in the infrastructure. But, this will not be enough either if we do not get people to exercise it as soon as possible. To give an example. When the first version of Iceberg was announced, I started to use it for a couple of projects. I stumbled across problems that prevented me from working for several weeks. I could have easily switched to SmalltalkHub, but I did not. I connected with Nicolas and we worked through those problems. Btw, Nicolas is doing a wonderful job, and people should not take this for granted. He tends to be shy, so if you see him around, please give him a hug and let him know that we count on him. Or better yet, use Iceberg for your projects and send him your feedback :). I am sure that there are more problems ahead, and the only way to go through them is committing to go through them. This will push us back for a while, but I really believe in the promise once we get on the other side. I actually think that GitHub is not really a good match for Pharo from a conceptual point of view (the mismatch between what it offers and what we need is quite large), but it is an engineering decision that makes perfect sense for the future. So, yes, we should take GitHub with a grain of salt, and make it a goal to not change much our concept of what makes sense for Pharo. For example, we should not give up on having to resort to the file system. That is why it is so important to make Iceberg (this is not for you Stef because I know you know it, but for others :)). And I certainly agree that we should look for sane patterns, but as it goes with patterns, they emerge out of practice. I think we should aim for limiting the time of being in between the two worlds. It will not be pleasant, and we can only do it if we stick together and go through it as soon as possible. Cheers, Doru > On Nov 6, 2016, at 1:05 PM, stepharo <steph...@free.fr> wrote: > > Hi > > I would like that you think a bit about our community and that there is a > value in using common tools > > to share and develop common libraries. Because to me it feels like we are > getting balkanize. > > > It may look super cool and be hyper trendy to use github (because like that > you can say that you use latest hyper cool > > features), but I would like to ask especially people building libraries to > pay attention that it is important > > that other people can contribute back easily and that there is an easy way to > load/contribute. > > Today I experienced Bloc > > - I cannot load code and I cannot contribute. > > - I saw mdl with a mixture between smalltalkhub and github (sounds super > hyper cool) and I saw paul not being able to contribute :( > > > Yes you can say that monticello sucks yes it is terrible yes we all fell like > Cobol programmers but at the end of the day. > > Yes the herb is always greener elsewhere. Yes yes yes. Let us take some facts. > > We managed pharo and moose with it over the last 8 years successfully and > Pharo and moose are not 5 packages together from > > what I can see. So pay attention about the decision you take. > > Now we will provide git support (this is 8 months that nicolas is exclusively > working/thinking/dreaming > > about that) and that we are doing experiments (Guille is managing the > bootstrap in github). > > Now when everybody will have its own little project lost on github (I do not > count the amount of time I do not find pillar on github because I forget > > that it is called pillar-markup), what will we do. > > So we need an infrastructure to handle this and christophe is working on this. > > I think that you should consider the accidental complexity as something that > we can minimise by using patterns and common practices. > > Now you can think that I'm an idiot and that I have no vision (be my guest) > but we should pay attention because we are a small community. > > Stef > > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Presenting is storytelling."
