Hi, Apples and oranges here. Yes, both are fruits (perceived speed), but that’s the only point in common :)
Apples and oranges because one thing is the overall performance of the environment and another completely different the perceived execution speed of the GUI. Still, some answers: > On 15 May 2020, at 06:47, Shaping <shap...@uurda.org > <mailto:shap...@uurda.org>> wrote: > > Hi all. > > > Squeak 5.3: > Time millisecondsToRun: [ 100000 factorial ] 6250 > > Pharo 8: > Time millisecondsToRun: [ 100000 factorial ] 7736 > > Why the difference? I have no idea. But I have to say that IN MY MACHINE: Squeak 5.3, just downloade: Time millisecondsToRun: [ 100000 factorial ]. 6289 Pharo (9, regular VM): Time millisecondsToRun: [ 100000 factorial ]. "3585" This surprises me more than you, in fact because I was expecting similar times (VM is the same, after all). Basically, all this benchmarks are very unreliable and depend a lot on the machine you are running and ultimately, "weather conditions". > Squeak 5.3 release notes describe arithmetic improvements. Nice. I crunch > very big numbers, and these improvements therefore have value. Why would > they not be included in OSVM (forked or not) and the basic class-set for both > Squeak and Pharo? In general , since VM is the same, if changes are in VM they are already in Pharo. > Playing with Squeak 5.3, I’ve noticed that the GUI is snappier. Browser > ergonomics are better too (for me at least), but that can be fixed/tuned in > either environ to suit the developer. (Still that’s some work I prefer not > to do.) Pharo GUIs are now generally slower, except for the Launcher, which > is delightfully quick because it is written in Spec2. I presume that all > Pharo GUIs will eventually (ETA?) be written in Spec2 and that Pharo will > then be quick in all its GUIs. The obvious question is: Will Squeak be > improving GUI look/behavior and speed with Spec2? If not, can I load Spec2 > into Squeak so that I can do new GUI work there? I don’t know about Squeak, this is not the appropriate place to ask Squeak questions. But yes, Pharo is in a battle to improve its GUI (we are basically rewriting all tools with Spec2, but even that some times is not enough since Morphic has become bloated, so our fight for performant tools is constant. Pharo 9 will replace all glamour based tools (Playground, inspector and debugger), plus some more old tools, and all will improve there I think (GTTools are cool, but Glamour was slow). > Both Squeak and Pharo have slow text selection. Pick any word in any pane, > and double click it to select it. When I do this, I sense a 75 to 100 ms > latency between the end of the double click and the selection highlight > appearing on the word. I thought I’d entered a wormhole. So I did the same > experiment in VW 8.3.2, VS Code, and Notepad, and all three showed > undetectable latencies. This matters to me. I’m trying to port from VW to > Pharo or Squeak (for a really long time now), and can’t push myself past the > text-selection delay problem. Can text-selection speed be improved to the > level of VW’s? Can someone sketch the algo used and/or point me to the > right class/methods. I don’t know… I’m sure is possible, but someone has to do it :) What I can tell you is that text model/operation is a big concern for us... > The Squeak debugging experience step-to-step is much quicker. The latencies > in Pharo after button- release are very long. I estimate 100 to 150 ms. > That’s too long for me to work productively. I lose my mental thread with > many of those delays, and have to restart the thought. It’s a serious > problem, caused mostly by acclimation to no detectable latency for many years > (Dolphin and VW have quick GUIs). Is speeding up the Pharo debugger with > Spec2 a priority? I can’t think of a better GUI-related priority for Pharo. Yes, it is a priority, but it is still a WIP. Part of this problems has nothing to do with GUI… thing is even if “debugger” is same concept, our debugger and the old debugger (which squeak continued) have a complete different machinery behind… still, yes we are working. > > > Not speed-related: > > - How can I load additional fonts into Squeak? Pharo does this with the > font dialog’s Update button. You’ll have to ask in squeak list, the sis not the appropriate place for that :) > - Where in the Squeak and Pharo images can I change mouse-selection behavior > to be leading-edge? Some of the Squeak panes have this; others don’t. I > want leading-edge action in all panes, and wish the feature were in > Preferences/Settings. I do not understand what that is. Still, I guess the right answer would be: if it is not there, being (both) open source projects that are sustained by communities, and being you part of the community, I think it would be a nice contribution for everybody if you absolute need this and you invest some time on doing it. I’m sure you will have all help you need to do it in both communities. Cheers! Esteban > > > > Shaping
