Le 2021-07-21 16:26, Esteban Maringolo a écrit : > I agree with the fact that words shape our way of thinking, but how > does master in this context relates to slavery?
> I would agree that a master/slave disk setup would directly relate to > that, but as I see there are no "slave" branches nor repositories. So > I really don't understand it. Sure, it was randomly chosen. Perhaps it designates a martial art master, which totally makes sense for the main branch that controls a software project. Totally makes sense. Of course everybody knows Microsoft does not really care (maybe some of their employees, I don't know) and that is just marketing (again, maybe not for people who feel concerned, but I will not speak for them). In the meantime, if nazis were not trying to shut up the big-picture-idea, those "discussions" would not happen. > As for Pharo being political, I have my doubts, It is political by essence, as an **open-source** project, it is more political because it promotes a vision, it is even more because it requires funding that is found by many ways that involve choices and politics. Then, the fact that you and your friends (you are a few here) want that we don't speak about that kind of topics (it was the same for the code of conduct) **is** political. So, you, by *arguing* with me right now, are making it political. What more do you need? > but calling people > names does not foster dialogue, Exactly! I don't want to dialogue with nazis and hear their shit, I want them to go away. And don't play the naive card: using precise keywords "woke", "woke incursion", "virtue-signalling", etc. are the mark of the nazis calling for more nazis to help them shut social and political actions down. It is factual. I am not the one insulting. > and certainly doesn't help building a > stronger community. > > Best regards, > > Esteban A. Maringolo > > On Wed, Jul 21, 2021 at 7:18 AM Steven Costiou <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Bullshit bullshit bullshit. >> >> It is not about feeling oppressed and stuff, it is about systemic racism >> that impregnated our vocabulary and that we are trying to get rid off. >> We should say in the FAQ that we support the idea of the transition but that >> for now, technically, using "master" is easier with Pharo until anyone from >> the community takes her time to solve the project. >> >> Woke + Virtue-Signalling => nazi words used by nazis to tell other nazis >> that they should nazify the discussion and kill every effort about any kind >> of social movement discussion. >> + typical nazi arguments everywhere in your messages... We're not stupid. >> >> Vocabulary and things will change. Pharo is political (in every way), so it >> has a political dimension and it will be discussed. >> You can do nothing about it. >> Just quit. >> >> Le 2021-07-21 11:51, [email protected] a écrit : >> >> Ugh. Slight history lesson / disambiguation. >> >> The phrasing „woke" actually came from „the left", first it was being „woke" >> about feminism, then this, then that. >> >> Then, those who felt oppressed by the sexist arguments of extreme, „woke" >> fraction of feminism, or racist arguments of those posing as anti-racists >> (and I could go on), started to use it as a pejorative, for those pushing >> insane propaganda, and for the propaganda itself. >> >> Then, those who called themselves / their positions „woke" in the past, >> started screeching that it is „extreme right vocabulary". >> >> As multiple people pointed out, master repository doesn't have anything to >> do with slavery; as I pointed out there is need to feel butthurt about some >> words even if your ancestors were affected by the concepts they were also >> used for. So you points are completely invalid, virtue-signalling garbage. >> >> But it usually takes „having the lived experience" of the woke garbage >> turning aginst you, to get one of the indoctrinated to leave their religion. >> And trying to do so doesn't belong on this forum, I just said what I felt >> needed to be said. >> >> And with this, I'm back to lurking, I just wanted to clearly demonstrate why >> such debates have no merit (clearly the opposite) on prog. lang. >> forums/mailing list. >> >> Everyone, keep on making Pharo great. >> >> From: Steven Costiou <[email protected]> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 9:47 PM >> To: Rauš Miloslav <[email protected]> >> Cc: [email protected] >> Subject: [Pharo-dev] Re: Metacello / Iceberg / GitHub master to main renaming >> >> So far, no windmill complained about "woke incursions". >> "Woke" is extremely clear vocabulary, only used by - let us get straight to >> the point and not waste our time - modern nazis. >> >> So, perhaps you misused the word and should document yourself extensively on >> the subject. >> But your reply seems to point otherwise. >> And *you* are the one feeling hurt because we want to recognize that >> vocabulary has an impact on how we perceive and conceive things. >> What was that again about cowardise and virtue? :) >> >> It is something to cope as we can with an annoying technical situation, it >> is another thing to ask to not consider political views because they are >> "woke" (which only purpose is to deny their legitimity without arguing). >> Does the Pharo community support "anti-woke" argumentation? >> This needs to be clear so that I can decide to leave the community or not. >> >> Or perhaps, that is a misunderstanding. >> >> Steven. >> >> Le 2021-07-20 20:12, [email protected] a écrit : >> >> Hi, >> >> it's „highly probably" somewhere in the territorry of poor understanding, >> but I wouldn't blame language (don't pretend to be obtuse when you want to >> be sneakily subversive). >> >> I explicitly stated that fighting against _actual_ slavery is better done by >> other means / elsewhere. Fighting against percieved shadows („extreme right >> vocabulary"; or nomenclature that never hurt no-one) is just divisive, and >> counter-productive on a programming language mailing-list. >> >> You can't erase history, and that some words that had negative connotations >> in the past are used for new, entirely unrelated purposes today is no wonder. >> >> As, of course, you can't be bothered to know, I'm member of one of those >> nations called „Slavic" (.cz in my mail address). You know, you pretender, >> nations who were enslaved so frequently that the word „slave" came from our >> enslavement. Do I have a tendency to blame „heirs" of those who enslaved us >> in the past ? Do I cringe every time the word slave is uttered ? Do you know >> that some brainwashed individuals in our nation, in sync with todays >> brainwashing, tried to push the narrative that we (our nation), were >> colonizers as well ? >> >> NO. >> >> No-one is gonna make me feel like a victim (or an abuser) because of what >> happened in the past, before my father was born, etc. >> >> Go fight you windmills, Don Q., I just hope the rest of the community won't >> let themselves be pulled into it. >> >> M.R. >> >> From: Steven Costiou <[email protected]> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 4:08 PM >> To: Pharo Development List <[email protected]> >> Cc: Rauš Miloslav <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] Re: Metacello / Iceberg / GitHub master to main >> renaming >> >> Le 2021-07-19 16:54, [email protected] a écrit : >> >> Maybe it's worth putting something in an faq - that we support the intent of >> the master to main naming convention >> >> That's pretty counter-productive. It would be just empty virtue-signalling >> response to an empty virtue-signalling gesture (that of MS/Github pushing >> master->main transition). >> >> The change would bring absolutely nothing to no-one (except a lot of >> needless work/friction; and an inroad for future woke incursions). Whomever >> is having problem with slavery can fight modern-day slavery in ie. Africa / >> China / etc or sex trafficking in their own country. >> >> I'm a bit sorry if I misinterpret what you say because of my poor >> understanding of english. >> But I would answer that whomever having a problem with fighting slavery in >> general should leave the community. >> Anyone also using and supporting extreme right vocabulary (e.g. "woke") >> should leave the community. >> If that's trolling, all the same. >> >> If I misinterpreted (non-native english speaker), I am sorry, and probably >> you will agree with me and there is no need for dicussion. >> >> Steven. >> >> I'd prefer either nothing in the FAQ, or finite statement to the tune of "no >> wokeness, we are about merit and not about empty gestures". >> >> Of course I expect cowardice & virtue-signalling to win in the end, but at >> least I tried. >> >> M.R. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Tim Mackinnon <[email protected]> >> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 1:14 PM >> To: Pharo Development List <[email protected]> >> Subject: [Pharo-dev] Re: Metacello / Iceberg / GitHub master to main renaming >> >> Maybe it's worth putting something in an faq - that we support the intent of >> the master to main naming convention, but that as we are a small community >> trying to improve many aspects of 50 years of development, this one had to >> unfortunately take a back seat for the moment while we simplify other things >> to make this an easier change? >> >> Tim >> >> On 19 Jul 2021, at 12:26, stephane ducasse <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Sven >> >> From that perspective this master to main change will cost us a lot of >> problem. >> I decided to continue to configure all my repositories to use master >> and I will do it for any repository that is related to pharo and that people >> may use. Just to remove such kind of friction. >> I would encourage people to do the same like that we do not have to think. >> >> S >> >> On 12 Jul 2021, at 14:32, Sven Van Caekenberghe <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> For new GitHub projects the default branch is now main instead of master. >> >> There is however code in Metacello / Iceberg / ... that tries a number of >> options if no branch is specified, but it is not yet aware of this change. >> >> Specifically: >> >> This does not work >> >> ./pharo reddit.image metacello install github://svenvc/Reddit >> BaselineOfReddit >> >> instead you have to say >> >> ./pharo reddit.image metacello install github://svenvc/Reddit:main/ >> BaselineOfReddit >> >> It took me half an hour to figure this out ;-) >> >> Sven
