Good point on the potential projects collision (aside: that does nothing in Calypso at the moment right?).
I was thinking that in Eclipse or IntelliJ, when you launch the IDE and go to do something, you create a “new project” and typically identify it as a a web project, or Java spring project (so effectively Templates). We kind of do that too don’t we? A moose project or a seaside project (although we seem to load more stuff from scratch these days - but potentially maybe we’re missing a trick of not helping someone create a fresh baselineOf to point to some pre-loaded assets in a template image?). I know we often think more about a blank canvas and then explore and pull stuff in as we find it - but if we’re trying to build a bridge for newcomers (particularly students who use other similarish tools) then this terminology is what they would expect. Going back to Ben’s point - what then is the project in Calypso. Is my project - eg. PagerDutyWeb is the main project in my image, and it depends on sub projects like Seaside,Willow and NeoJson - or are those latter items libraries? I’m not actually clear on what our terminology is. In writing this, it’s usefully got me thinking that when I create a Launcher image (project?), rather than name it after the template, as in “Pharo 6.1 (stable)”, this should really be meta data on a directory and image called “PagerDuty”. We have a crude form of that in a file called description.txt, but maybe that should be called image.json and have fields for description, template, build, createdDate etc. Of course this is a bit more work - but as you build up a list of images, it would be handier to manage them better. Tim Sent from my iPhone >> On 26 Jun 2018, at 14:37, H. Hirzel <hannes.hir...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> On 6/26/18, Tim Mackinnon <tim@testit.works> wrote: >> As I mentioned - the user in question was quite complimentary, just confused >> on first launch. >> >> Equally we don’t want to impact power users, and ultimately we want to >> encourage everyone to try newer images to help with improvements. >> >> I honestly think that some slightly improved terminology and a bit of >> guidance to get your first image (eg picking the correct one) is all it >> takes. > > +1 > Maybe just a note on the download website which 'new project' (image) > beginners should go for.... > > --Hannes >> >> Once you’ve groked it - you are off. We just want that first experience to >> be pleasant. >> >> I personally like to see the list of images and understand how many builds >> have been made as it’s comforting to see the progress and be encouraged to >> join in. >> >> I as going to propose a simple change to the name on the lists like: >> >> “Templates” -> “Image Templates” or maybe even “Project Templates” >> >> “Images” -> “Downloaded Images” or maybe “Created Projects” >> >> (While we are familiar with the term image, maybe it’s an implementation >> detail - eclipse and IntelliJ create projects, and we aren’t so different) >> >> We could also as Cyril suggests, have a little welcome window with some text >> and a picture. >> >> Both really simple to do and probably enough to get people started. After >> all, our audience is reasonable technical so we shouldn’t need to dumb It >> down too much. >> >> I’m also conscious about here is a lot of Pharo 7 work to do as well. >> >> Tim >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On 26 Jun 2018, at 08:09, Christophe Demarey <christophe.dema...@inria.fr> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Tim, >>> >>>> Le 26 juin 2018 à 03:00, Ben Coman <b...@openinworld.com> a écrit : >>>> >>>> On 26 June 2018 at 06:17, Tim Mackinnon <tim@testit.works> wrote: >>>>> Hi everyone - at tonights month UK Smalltalk Meetup, we got some nice >>>>> compliments on the state of Pharo (the participants - all ex small >>>>> talkers - although ex in so much as they fondly remembered it and wanted >>>>> to use it for something relevant now because they enjoyed it in the >>>>> past). >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, one interesting comment stuck out - he had downloaded Pharo >>>>> (having used Visual Age 15+ years ago) and was a bit overwhelmed with >>>>> what laugher presented to him. He didn’t hate it - but was initially a >>>>> bit lost as to what it all meant and how to start… he figured it out, >>>>> but I thought the feedback was interesting and made me think that maybe >>>>> we need some form of intro wizard to get people off to a quick start but >>>>> leave them confident enough that they might come back and try a Pharo 7 >>>>> or Moose etc. >>>>> >>>>> I encouraged him to post something on here, but thoughtI would note it >>>>> (as it seems quite easy to fix) as an idea while it was fresh in my >>>>> mind. >>>> >>>> A welcome tutorial is a good idea. And btw, the sort of idea that only >>>> comes from broader use of PharoLauncher. >>> >>> Thanks for the feedback. >>> We also got this feedback from students. We know we have to improve the UI >>> by simplifying it. >>> Our idea was to only provide a window with a toolbar and the list of >>> images as the main Pharo Launhcer window. >>> On this windows, clicking on the + button will open a « wizard » like the >>> one for creating repositories in Iceberg. There you could choose to create >>> an image from « featured images » or ci, etc. >>> >>> It would lower a lot the cognitive charge of the current window. >>> We just need time to implement it. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Christophe >
