Thank you for that well-stated argument. I agree, offray's argument is silly. It's like saying that there aren't many male kindergarten teachers and that this is evidence that the school system is "sexist".
- Steve PS Can we please just kill the CoC it's making this maillist political. On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 8:25 PM Richard O'Keefe <rao...@gmail.com> wrote: > Let's look at some official numbers. > > Looking at > https://www.hesa.ac.uk/news/11-01-2018/sfr247-higher-education-student-statistics/qualifications > we see that overall, female graduates outnumbered male graduates about > 4 to 3 in each of the three years > recorded. The imbalance in science graduates was less, but it was > still consistently women significantly > outnumbering men. Computer science stood out as consistently about 4 > men to 1 woman, and Computer > Science departments are tying themselves into knots trying to figure > out what to do about it. Meanwhile, > nobody worries that "subjects allied to medicine" was about 4 women to 1 > man. > > If there are models explaining that "colleges" are set up to favour > white males, why are women succeeding > so much more than men? > > In my own country, ten years ago the main newspaper ran an article > pointing out that "Two-thirds of bachelor > degrees last year went to women, the highest figure on record" and > that "Women have outnumbered men > in the tertiary sector for more than a decade", blaming "a secondary > school system which may discourage > or poorly prepare boys for further learning". > > Look now at Canada. > > https://www.conferenceboard.ca/hcp/Details/education/gender-gap-tertiary.aspx?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1 > tells us that "Canadian women aged 25 to 64 are 17 per cent more > likely than Canadian men to have a tertiary education. > The imbalance in educational attainment between Canadian men and women > has increased over the past decade, > raising questions about whether higher education in Canada is becoming > less hospitable to male learners." This is not new. > "the overall gender imbalance tipped in women’s favour in Canada in > the early 1990s. ... > Many are asking whether there is a 'boy crisis' in education and > wondering what can be done to address it. In fact, a > growing 'boy gap' in education can be seen across OECD countries, with > the problem beginning long before students > reach post-secondary age. According to a recent report, 'boys, as a > group, rank behind girls by nearly every measure > of scholastic achievement'—including reading and writing scores—and > they are 'also more likely to be picked out for > behavioural problems, more likely to repeat a grade and to drop out of > school altogether.” "when we examine th > more recent cohort of graduates—those aged 25 to 34—nearly every > country has a gender imbalance that favours > women. In most cases, moreover, women’s advantage has become much more > pronounced." > > So models that explain why colleges favour white males are rather like > models that explain why the sun is dark. > If "colleges" are set up to favour white males, they are doing a > catastrophically bad job of it. So much so that I > have been glad I have daughters, not sons. > > If you want to say that Computer Science numbers are due to some sort > of discriminatory environment rather than > preference, then you have to explain the equally large imbalance the > other way in "medicine-related subjects" as > discrimination rather than preference. > > > On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 at 02:39, Stephan Eggermont <step...@stack.nl> wrote: > > > > Steve Quezadas <steve...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Your interpreting this information with a SJW lens. > > > > SJW is a political construct from the extreme right. As a straight white > > male from Western Europe I have seen enough discriminatory practices > > applied to less privileged friends to know there is a problem. And as I > can > > afford to speak up, I do. > > > > > Look at the low proportion of blacks and women who > > > apply for CS majors in college. Are you going to say that colleges are > > > using discriminatory practices to keep blacks and women from taking CS > > > classes? > > > > Yes, the colleges are set up to make it easier for white males to > succeed. > > There are enough models explaining why that happens > > > > > Maybe the bulk of the low recruitment statistics is simply due to > > > non-interest within that sub-culture. > > > > Back to identity politics? > > > > Stephan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
