Steve, since you are THE Edison Reproducer expert, how do you explain that
Edison kept making Reproducers with the adjusting arms long after all the
machines had alignment pins and the securing screws? I cannot imagine a
scenario that results in adjusting arm equipped Reproducers being produced with
high serial numbers so much later than the clips were phased out.
Hello Al,
Thanks for the wonderful compliment. I am pleased to have this question and
very thankful for the recognition, it means a great deal to me. I enjoy
reproducer questions. Much of my research is done by examples I have seen on
eBay and with friends sharing so any input is appreciated. Since I do not have
access to much written reproducer material much of my work has been like
putting a giant jigsaw puzzle together. I never mind learning so any
corrections are appreciated.
If you had a carriage with the clips and wanted to upgrade from an automatic or
early B without the notch and you did not want to upgrade the carriage you
would need an armed C. This is why I believe you see the armed C into late
1906 or early 1907. I have seen a number of machines with clips and an armed
C, I have seen one machine with the carriage updated and the lug holding the
adjusting screw removed.
Steve
The more detailed answer:
A20189 is the highest serial number of armed C I have seen so far. If you had
a carriage with the clips and wanted to upgrade to a C the arm was necessary if
you did not upgrade the carriage with the centering pin.
I believe the Model C is found with the arm sporadically into early 1907. The
new top stamped REPRODUCER appeared by 108,000. I believe the arm was retained
for two reasons, first the Edison factory never wasted and parts got misplaced
and found later on, secondly if you have a carriage with the clips and you
wanted to upgrade that carriage to a Model C the arm was necessary to easily
have the stylus in the position where it tracked properly. I owned a suitcase
home that had a carriage that originally had the clips and the four holes for
the screws, but the lug that held the adjusting screw was machined off and it
had a centering pin and set screw. From this I assume Edison updated the
carriage and I assume there was a charge. To upgrade a suitcase home and not
modify the carriage an armed C was the easiest way.
The B to K share serial numbers and the B replaced the automatic around the
summer of 1901. The early B does not have a notch for the centering pin until
in the 17,000 range, but some in the 18,000 range is found that way also. The
C joined in around 25,000 and the D around 30,000. When the Gem started to use
the B reproducer it did not have the arm. B reproducers from 40,000 to around
105,000 that were used on the Gem do not have the arm and the word Reproducer
is not on the top. For years the armed C puzzled me since the Gem B did not
have the arm and the armed C was made for so long. This gave me the idea that
Edison kept the armed C for a reason as well as using up old parts.
Armed B reproducers above 40,000 are not common, but I have seen them on
concert machines and an Edison Bell Duplex. The reason Edison is so much fun
to research is because of all his varieties.
Al, Ron, Bill, Dave, Anthony, and many others have been extremely generous in
sharing reproducer photos and information with me and I really appreciate it so
very much.
There are four types of the armed C:
The first Model C has a blank weight, an arm, and the serial numbers by the
letters and a stepped mica diaphragm that goes from around .003 to .009. The C
appeared around serial number 25,000 and always had a notch. The B got the
notch around 17,000.
The second C has Model-C added to the weight which happened in the 30,000 range.
The third C has holes added to the weight which happened in the 70,000 range.
The fourth C has the serial numbers around the sound tube and A20189 is the
highest serial number I have seen of this type so the armed C appeared
sporadically into early 1907 or the end of 1906. Edison never wasted and often
earlier parts are found on later products. Just before 400,000 in the
390,000’s both the recorder and the reproducer began to get the serial number
around the sound tube on the ledge.
There are three main types of the copper diaphragms found in the C. The first
one is more smooth like the early large diaphragm found in the flat H weight
model L. Photos will be sent on request. It appears the first copper
diaphragms had the eyelet cemented in with Stratena, unless Edison forgot to
solder some which I think is not likely. The first eyelets in the copper
diaphragms were the nickel plated ones found in the mica diaphragms. There are
three patterns of the smooth ones and one that appears more brass than copper.
Ron told me that Edison cut the top of the reproducers so he could put sand
grains on the diaphragms to 'see' how different patterns affected the sound.
There are two types of the corrugated common C diaphragm, the first one was
like a child's swimming pool in that it was stepped down, the later one is flat.
Around 2,119,000 of the small tops were made from the first B of 1901 until the
CHK's of the 1920's.
Around 615,000 of the 2 and 4 minute recorders were made from the new style
recorder of 1901 with its weak aluminum cutter with tiny arms to the 2 and 4
minuter recoders made in the 1920's. From around 1913 on the 2 and 4 minute
recorder has the same style of stylus holder.
Around 309,000 of the diamond C and D reproducers were made.
Steve
> To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
> From: clockworkh...@aol.com
> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 04:14:47 -0400
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Standard Reproducer Ciips to Holding Screw
>
> Hi Steve:
>
> My notes differ from the numbers you had. I have Standard S#51888 as having
> clips but by S#52180 shipped without them but having the set screw.
>
> I have often said that Edison machines were assembled but not on a perfectly
> inline assembly line. Early parts at the bottom of a parts bin often ended up
> on later machines, within reason. It would not surprise me that newer screw
> securing carriage arms were put on top of earlier clip arms and those clip
> arms were put on later when the bottom of the bin was reached.
>
> Steve, since you are THE Edison Reproducer expert, how do you explain that
> Edison kept making Reproducers with the adjusting arms long after all the
> machines had alignment pins and the securing screws? I cannot imagine a
> scenario that results in adjusting arm equipped Reproducers being produced
> with high serial numbers so much later than the clips were phased out.
>
> How I would love to have research privileges at the Site... Oh well, these
> esoteric questions may be answered by some future scholar.
>
> Regards,
>
> Al
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steven Medved <steve_nor...@msn.com>
> To: phono-l <phono-l@oldcrank.org>
> Sent: Thu, Aug 30, 2012 5:40 pm
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Gem Model E
>
>
>
> Hello Al, Welcome back. I hope you enjoyed yourself. I have often wondered
> when the Edison phonograph carriages went from clips to the set screw. George
> Paul tells me Standard 52182 that has the clips and 53411 that has the screw
> left the factory in April 1902. He has data that tells when machines left the
> factory. I guess the set screw came out in October 1901 as the early B got
> the
> notch in the 17,000 range and the Model C appeared around 25,000, but this is
> only a guess based on the Frow book saying the standard got the push pull
> lift
> know in October 1901 when it did not get it until around Standard S108,000
> which
> would have been way into 1902. It is my idea he got the push pull lift know
> and
> the set screw mixed up. I have learned it is very hard to pin Edison products
> down with dates. Best regards, Steve Steve,
> Both No.52182 and No.53411 left the factory about April 1902. Makes sense,
> doesn't it?
> Best,George
> > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
> > From: clockworkh...@aol.com
> > Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 01:59:49 -0400
> > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Gem Model E
> >
> >
> > Hi Steve:
> > The highest number Model N Reproducer in a Gem E that I know of is 67830.
> > It
> is a domed one with the large N on the fishtail weight.
> > Hope that helps...
> > Al
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Phono-L mailing list
> > http://phono-l.org
>
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