> Hi All, > > Sorry Sterling but some of your statements are inaccurate and some of > them are just no big deal at all. >
please, be specific. > All in all this is a no problem. > Yes Manuel has a style that makes some people go nuts, but only because > people let themselves go nuts. > i don't go nuts -- i just get drained from listening to long threads where manuel is spewing insults. I don't want people with (verbal) diarrhea in my sandbox. > I am new to the php-dev list and the pear-dev list but I allready got my > taste of most of those threads and in all instances I tried to mediate > between both sides. I don't understand why it is so hard to focus on the > valuable info that Manuels posts to bring to the table. I know he has a > way of formulating critic that is sometime hard to swallow. So you jump > on him. He jumps back at the replier and there we go: a flame war. > well, if he had valid points that would be another thing. its a bit before your time, but if you look at the archives, i was actually quite supportive to a mr. john ribbens, who although he said things offensively, had some real points. statements like "webservices are important to support" are as obvious and as arbitrary as "sex is good." for my part, i've noticed that manuel often uses his "valuable criticism", which is often nothing more than, "web services are good", or "evangelism is important", to spread his vitriolity onto the php-dev@ lists. > You all are programmers that are skilled at recognizing patterns and yet > you all keep falling for it. I don't get it. Of course his cynic > comments about developers ignoring bc or not fixing bugs can be used as > a great basis to get pissed off. But by jumping on those comments you > are not doing anything to help. If people would just reply and set the > record straight there would be no problem. Or ignore it and proof the > public otherwise. Instead of letting Manuel ruin your productivity let > him be the devil that remind me of the most evil perspective of PHPs > worst enemy could portray to the world about PHP. But in the end > remember that Manuel is no enemy of PHP but is just trying to be the > devils advocate. > there is a difference between being the devil's advocate and being the devil -- his messages are written in the latter tone. > Actually if you want hate his guts, but don't fill up mailinglists with > useless flamewars. > i actually don't hate his guts at all. i think he's gotten entrenched in a battle with the php developers -- manuel used to be a lot more reasonable, however, i don't have patience to deal with someone like this who isn't contributing to php. > I know I have done little for PHP to have much respect in the PHP dev > community. And maybe I am allready viewed as someone that tries to > suckup to Manuel because I have sided with a fair number of his > arguments. In all of those arguments I tried to keep the discussion > focused in the issue at hand and away from flame wars. I liked to think > that maybe I helped get the db abstraction layer merger accepted (I now > have to proof that I will follow through and deliver now). But this just > proofs to me that there is value in what Manuel sais and does and that > it would hurt PHP if his voice would be silenced. > your not, i respect your opinion, because you have respect for my opinion. furthermore, i don't mean to insult your technology, but metabase is certainly no big contribution, at least on manuel's behalf (for your part it might be considered so). the ideas and functionality of metabase, are quite obvious to anyone who wants to implement a proper db abstraction layer. furthermore, metabase is not yet in pear -- i'm not telling you about my wonderful contributions to php in the area of creating perl integration -- simply because whether or not i'm planning on adding it, i haven't yet committed it to php's source. > So please try to take on the challenge of focusing on the content in > Manuels emails that matters to PHP and ignore everything else. I assure > you mastering this challenge will help you greatly in the future. > > A good example of how to handle things is Zak. When I met him at the php > conference it was quite obvious to me that he is the kind of person that > focuses on things that actually help going further and that will not let > people distract him from this. I very much appreciate his style. And it > shows in one of the threads you pasted Sterling: > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-dev&m=101084014908249&w=2 > > Please try to see this as an example of how to handle Manuel. > > I hope I have not wasted too much of valueable time. I know Zeev wanted > to keep all of this out of the php-dev list, but I do prefer this being > more transparent to the public and I also wanted to reply to Sterlings > comments. Anyways its 11pm here, I have tons of bugs to fix but the > latested developments have really sadend me. I hope this email follows > in Zak's tradition of trying to keep things focused and steering ahead. > You seem to be missing a crucial part of this -- manuel doesn't contribute. if manuel was a contributor to php, i'd probably be his biggest advocate here. he has not contributed anything but his "constructive criticism" (which is not constructive), and that has won him resentment amongst alot of the php developers. i see no reason why i should waste my time being productive with someone who doesn't contribute. i have tried zak's approach with manuel in the past (long before you even started with php), but manuel has not changed, for the better (at least), in the past 2 years. -Sterling -- PHP Development Mailing List <http://www.php.net/> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
