php-general Digest 6 Jan 2013 16:36:45 -0000 Issue 8089
Topics (messages 320039 through 320049):
Re: Pear Page2
320039 by: Ashley Sheridan
320040 by: tamouse mailing lists
320041 by: Silvio Siefke
320042 by: Ashley Sheridan
320043 by: Silvio Siefke
320044 by: Ashley Sheridan
320045 by: Tedd Sperling
320046 by: Silvio Siefke
320047 by: Silvio Siefke
320048 by: Ashley Sheridan
320049 by: Tedd Sperling
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, 2013-01-05 at 15:23 +0100, Silvio Siefke wrote:
> Hello,
>
> On Sat, 05 Jan 2013 07:53:04 +0000
> Ashley Sheridan <a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > I'm not sure quite what you'd expect such a module to do? Is this for
> > templating?
>
> page2 creates complete websites. Would be useful because I'm sitting
> at the website internationalization. Template engines seem complicated.
>
>
> Thank you for help, Greetings
> Silvio
>
I've just had a quick look at page2, and I can't say I see the point.
You'd end up having to write a lot more code that was harder to manage
by adding each element through a class like that if your site got even
moderately complicated.
There are many templating engines, and some are more complicated than
others, don't write them off just yet. Technically speaking, page2 is a
template engine of a kind, so you're already using one.
Thanks,
Ash
http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 8:52 AM, Ashley Sheridan <a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk>
wrote
> On Sat, 2013-01-05 at 15:23 +0100, Silvio Siefke wrote:
>> On Sat, 05 Jan 2013 07:53:04 +0000
>> Ashley Sheridan <a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> > I'm not sure quite what you'd expect such a module to do? Is this for
>> > templating?
>>
>> page2 creates complete websites. Would be useful because I'm sitting
>> at the website internationalization. Template engines seem complicated.
> I've just had a quick look at page2, and I can't say I see the point.
> You'd end up having to write a lot more code that was harder to manage
> by adding each element through a class like that if your site got even
> moderately complicated.
>
> There are many templating engines, and some are more complicated than
> others, don't write them off just yet. Technically speaking, page2 is a
> template engine of a kind, so you're already using one.
To build on Ash's remarks, I'd say don't over-engineer and complicate
your application. HTML5 is dead easy to write directly -- unless you
think your application is going to need to generate different flavours
of (X)HTML, it may not be worth going the full-programmatic route like
Page2 does. Internationalization is a pretty complex thing in and of
itself (language preference detection, message catalog management,
localized formatting, etc) that to also make the other parts of the
presentation that complex are probably not where you want to spend
your time.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello,
On Sat, 05 Jan 2013 14:52:12 +0000
Ashley Sheridan <a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk> wrote:
> I've just had a quick look at page2, and I can't say I see the point.
> You'd end up having to write a lot more code that was harder to manage
> by adding each element through a class like that if your site got even
> moderately complicated.
>
> There are many templating engines, and some are more complicated than
> others, don't write them off just yet. Technically speaking, page2 is a
> template engine of a kind, so you're already using one.
Page2 dominated not HTML5. The websites at issue are in HTML5 "written".
So an alternative must be sought to Page2.
Thanks for help, Greetings
Silvio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Silvio Siefke <siefke_lis...@web.de> wrote:
>Hello,
>
>On Sat, 05 Jan 2013 14:52:12 +0000
>Ashley Sheridan <a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I've just had a quick look at page2, and I can't say I see the point.
>> You'd end up having to write a lot more code that was harder to
>manage
>> by adding each element through a class like that if your site got
>even
>> moderately complicated.
>>
>> There are many templating engines, and some are more complicated than
>> others, don't write them off just yet. Technically speaking, page2 is
>a
>> template engine of a kind, so you're already using one.
>
>Page2 dominated not HTML5. The websites at issue are in HTML5
>"written".
>So an alternative must be sought to Page2.
>
>Thanks for help, Greetings
>Silvio
If the pages are already written, why do you want to start changing the way
they've been built?
Thanks,
Ash
http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello,
On Sat, 05 Jan 2013 17:21:05 +0000
Ashley Sheridan <a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk> wrote:
> If the pages are already written, why do you want to start changing
> the way they've been built?
1.) All websites are created manually. (nano + html/css Tags)
2.) The maintenance effort now is not enough.
3.) The programming (PHP) provides opportunities, which I'd like to meet.
4.) curiosity
5.) enough time
Me was helped a lot in forums and mailing lists. I would like it back, because
that's the idea of Open Source. Maybe I can help someone be in the distant
future on a project. For that I must even try to learn once, and read.
Is that all one reason or think I'm wrong?
Thank you for help, Greetings
Silvio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Silvio Siefke <siefke_lis...@web.de> wrote:
>Hello,
>
>On Sat, 05 Jan 2013 17:21:05 +0000
>Ashley Sheridan <a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> If the pages are already written, why do you want to start changing
>> the way they've been built?
>
>1.) All websites are created manually. (nano + html/css Tags)
>2.) The maintenance effort now is not enough.
>3.) The programming (PHP) provides opportunities, which I'd like to
>meet.
>4.) curiosity
>5.) enough time
>
>Me was helped a lot in forums and mailing lists. I would like it back,
>because
>that's the idea of Open Source. Maybe I can help someone be in the
>distant
>future on a project. For that I must even try to learn once, and read.
>
>Is that all one reason or think I'm wrong?
>
>
>Thank you for help, Greetings
>Silvio
What I would start to do is break out common parts of pages to include files.
This would be stuff like headers, footers, sidebars, etc.
>From there, you could use variables to set things like titles, stylesheets,
>nav items, etc. I've had to do this recently on a project that was written as
>a bunch of static files.
At worst, you could update the page2 templating engine to account for your new
elements. But like I said, I think the very style page2 uses is extremely
limiting, and will make maintenance later on.
Thanks,
Ash
http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jan 5, 2013, at 3:11 PM, Silvio Siefke <siefke_lis...@web.de> wrote:
> On Sat, 05 Jan 2013 17:21:05 +0000
> Ashley Sheridan <a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> If the pages are already written, why do you want to start changing
>> the way they've been built?
>
> 1.) All websites are created manually. (nano + html/css Tags)
>
Not mine.
Cheers,
tedd
_____________________
t...@sperling.com
http://sperling.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello,
On Sat, 05 Jan 2013 20:36:12 +0000
Ashley Sheridan <a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk> wrote:
> What I would start to do is break out common parts of pages to include
> files. This would be stuff like headers, footers, sidebars, etc.
> From there, you could use variables to set things like titles,
> stylesheets, nav items, etc. I've had to do this recently on a project
> that was written as a bunch of static files.
That i try at moment. Headers, CSS and static Content. Other stuff come
from database. Only the date's make little trouble.
> At worst, you could update the page2 templating engine to account for
> your new elements. But like I said, I think the very style page2 uses
> is extremely limiting, and will make maintenance later on.
I think for static content were it good. What think about phptal?
Thank you for help, Kind Regards
Silvio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hallo,
On Sat, 5 Jan 2013 15:40:56 -0500
Tedd Sperling <t...@sperling.com> wrote:
> Not mine.
What should me say this two words? You not use nano, ok. Editors enough
on earth. Or you not write manually? Then share the way! Or use a CMS?
Thank you for help, Kind Regards
Silvio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, 2013-01-05 at 22:24 +0100, Silvio Siefke wrote:
> Hallo,
>
> On Sat, 5 Jan 2013 15:40:56 -0500
> Tedd Sperling <t...@sperling.com> wrote:
>
>
> > Not mine.
>
> What should me say this two words? You not use nano, ok. Editors enough
> on earth. Or you not write manually? Then share the way! Or use a CMS?
>
> Thank you for help, Kind Regards
> Silvio
>
Personally, I favour CodeIgniter as a framework to handle stuff like
routes and stuff. I do the templates like this:
1. Call up the template.php view and pass across name of content
view to use for the page/section and other page-specific bits
2. Template view pulls in header view and populates it with default
<head> stuff, which can be overridden with stuff from step 1
3. Template view pulls in the main content view which deals with
that page
4. Template view pulls in footer view and populates it in the same
way as header
This is the most basic example, but often the template view will deal
with other bits like navigation bars, sidebars, and other shared
sections. You need not limit yourself to one template view either, you
could have several depending on the section of the site.
Thanks,
Ash
http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jan 5, 2013, at 4:24 PM, Silvio Siefke <siefke_lis...@web.de> wrote:
>
> What should me say this two words? You not use nano, ok. Editors enough
> on earth. Or you not write manually? Then share the way! Or use a CMS?
Silvio:
You said --
> 1.) All websites are created manually. (nano + html/css Tags)
-- and I replied "Not mine". In other words, some of my web-sites are NOT
created manually. They are dynamically generated from user input.
For example:
http://ancientstones.com
For the exception of the static First page, FAQ page, and Contact page, all
other pages are generated from user input/direction.
I don't use nano (I don't even know what that is), but what I do is to create
pages that pass W3C compliance and follow "best" practices. From what I've
gathered from most frameworks I've reviewed, they have problems (similar to
ASP) in mixing different languages in ways such that compliance with W3C and
accessibility issues are difficult, if not impossible, to achieve.
Even CMS's have difficulty with compliance and accessibility issues because of
the lack of knowledge of the user/client. I have clients who insist on CMS's,
but then are clueless as to user issues and difficulties..
So, where does that leave a "Web Developer?" It leaves them with the
responsibility to learn and apply what they learned to their craft. Is there an
easy way out, such as to use a certain framework, or CMS, or other such
attempts at minimizing the work involved? The answer is a simple "No".
Instead, you have to spend every waking hour learning and applying that
knowledge with openness to the possibility that you still don't understand the
problems involved -- it's a never ending battle to educate yourself.
Cheers,
tedd
_____________________
t...@sperling.com
http://sperling.com
--- End Message ---
