I agree with most of your points actually. That's why I said I thought the
love would "fade off a bit".
For some things I agree that XML really is quite excellant.
But what I meant about people not being good with "new" on Java and XML, is
that when people (including myself) get a new toy they try and do everything
with it. People get a VCR, and now they want it to program itself and set
it's own clock. Thus came for horrible implementation of "VCR+".
Java was originally made to work in little widgets like blenders and
microwaves. Then it made sense to work on computers too...it's still a very
good idea. But then people instantly tried to do everything with it, and
complained loudly when they couldn't. So Sun bowed to their wishes and
started forcing Java to do things it wasn't yet ready to do.
And now Java applets are quite secure for the user, but the ease with which
they can be decompiled is gastly.
And with XML it's the same way, for now. They want it to do _everything_.
Now when you mix XML with a little javascript and a server-side language
like PHP or *cough* ASP (or any of the others), it really is a pretty nifty
widget.
But here is my problem. For instance with Java, people tend to get really
excited about doing something that they could of done with C/C++. But in
reality, it's a feature only a mother (or programmer, as the case may be),
could love.
So my whole POV is when you want to open a can, use a can opener. So please
put the VCR back under the TV.
--
Plutarck
Should be working on something...
...but forgot what it was.
"Michael Kimsal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>
> Plutarck wrote:
>
> > I use to be really enthusiastically pro-XML just as I was getting into
PHP,
> > but now I've basically taken a "XML shmexXML" approach. I get the
initial
> > attraction, but I would think the love would fade off a bit.
> >
> > The key that so many people seem to forget is the best way to do HTML is
> > with, *gasp*, HTML!
> >
> > If you just want a webpage, XML is using a canon to kill a fly. It's
like
> > creating classes and objects in PHP for sending text emails.
> >
>
> Agreed, but if you have a set of data that you'd like to be able to
> "fairly easily" convert into multiple presentation systems (HTML, PDF
> and WAP spring to mind), then taking a more structured data and
> abstraction approach can pay off quite handsomely on larger projects.
>
>
> >
> > Sure you can do it...but why?
> >
>
> Because what you need to do might change some in the future. Yes,
> use mail() all you want, but when you start needing to send attachments,
> already you need a class of some sort. - Aha - I see you qualified and
said
> 'text' attachments. OK...
>
>
> >
> > XML is new. Common society doesn't do well with new. They always manage
to
> > screw it up somehow.
> >
>
> Depends on what you mean by 'screw it up'. The notion of a commercial
> internet, to me, seems to have been adopted QUITE quickly - even my
> parents have coped quite well with this 'new' stuff, and they STILL
> can't set their VCR clocks.
>
> >
> > XML started as an extensible markup language...that's it. That's all it
was
> > supposed to do! Now people are using it to query databases, and concoct
> > entire search engines, and they are trying to use it to control access
to
> > restricted data, etc etc.
> >
>
> I don't know what you're talking about here. I've not heard of anyone
using
> XML to 'control access' to 'restricted data'. The XML itself IS the data.
>
>
> >
> > It's the same thing that happened with Java. People just aren't good
with
> > "new".
> >
>
> Don't lump Java in with other 'new' technology wholesale. Sun has made,
> imo, a HUGE number of mistakes pushing Java out, so the
> less-than-stellar adoption of Java has as much or more to do with Sun
themselves
>
> rather than people's ability to adopt to 'new' things. Again, imo.
>
>
> >
> > XML is nice, and for some things it's even great. But it's not the death
of
> > plain old HTML, just like ISDN didn't kill POTS (remember when ISDN was
"the
> > future of telecom"?).
> >
> > I fear that there are too many cooks in the kitchen on XML, all with a
> > seasoning all their own that they are dead set on adding to the broth.
> >
> > But for me, I say let people play with their Java and XML and new
fangled
> > widgets. I'll take my PHP and plain-old HTML, and I'll create twice as
much
> > material with just as high a quality, and I won't need to spend an extra
> > minute learning a bleeding-edge technology.
> >
>
> Twice as much material? Is there a contest going on? Some of us are
trying
> to use PHP to create advanced applications where we exchange data with
> disparate parties. Having a common standard by which we can exchange
> data is a necessity - XML can be that commonality in many cases.
>
> Keep making your HTML webpages - no one is trying to convert you. Realize
> 2 things:
>
> 1. The impact and use of 'internet' and related technologies are much
larger
> than you or I alone can grasp.
> 2. New things can come along that don't disrupt your world - you don't
need to
> come down so heavily on something you don't need or use.
>
> >
> > Life's too short to spend it learning how to live it. Translation:
Better to
> > program than to learn yet _another_ language.
> >
>
> Go back to VIC-20 BASIC then. Things change, and eventually you need to
adapt.
> At one point you didn't know PHP. Why did you learn it? Why not stick
> with what you were using before? Because PHP offered you benefits
> you couldn't get elsewhere for the same effort. SAME thing with XML.
There are
>
> growing pains, yes, and political pissing matches between the "big boys"
but
> all in all it's a good idea that some of us have a use for.
>
> :)
>
>
>
>
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