Frank Ludolph wrote:
Shawn Walker wrote:
Frank Ludolph wrote:
under Applications match the Applications menu. Items in the an
Applications subcategory, when installed, should appear within
corresponding Applications menu entry. Ubuntu has Add/Remove... in
their Applications menu that works the same way. Emacs-gtk and GVim
are in the Accessories subcategory. A primary requirement of a
package to be categorized under Applications/... is that it appear in
the corresponding Applications submenu after installation.
Requirement? What requirements and from where did they come?
It's pretty confusing to categorize an application one way in the PM and
a different way in the Applications menu, or to not appear at all.
It is? I don't believe so, but as I said before, I don't mind if the
categories are consistent, but just because an application doesn't have
an icon in that menu group shouldn't have any bearing on it's
categorisation.
It would be reasonable to classify gnu-emacs-gtk, gnu-emacs-x and
other packages under Applications/... when they are also installed in
the corresponding Applications (or System) submenu. Until then they
need to live elsewhere. Development/Editors seemed more appropriate
to our primary target audience, developers, than System/Text Tools.
While I could possibly agree with the assertion that packages should
be categorised as they are grouped in the GNOME menu, I do not agree
that the lack of a menu item should dictate that it be categorised
differently. Ultimately, categorisation is about helping the user
find applications, not mapping to a menu hierarchy.
Finding them both to install and to run. We need to do better here. The
only way to figure out how to run a terminal-based app after installing
is to look at its Files list for /usr/bin/... in the PM (or search
/usr/bin/ after installing).
I agree we need to do better, but again, the presence of an icon in a
menu should not dictate categorisation.
Emacs-nox (terminal-based) is not listed within Ubuntu's Add/Remove.
Add/Remove... does not list any terminal-based applications. Ubuntu
appears to agree with the proposition that terminal-based
applications are appropriate for only a limited number of highly
computer-skilled users. Mixing them in with GUI applications will
only lead to a number of issues for other users who will install them
while browsing for 'interesting' applications, and, after
installation, will not even be able to find and start them. The
highly-skilled users will have little trouble finding them by
searching or even browsing.
Just because Ubuntu does it, does not mean it is right. I believe we
can do better here. If our purpose in life is to just copy Ubuntu,
then let's just ship Ubuntu and be done with it.
In a related email Stephen said he would be reassured by examples from
another classification scheme where interaction style is a determinant.
That's why the Ubuntu comments are included. But in all fairness I feel
that Ubuntu does a pretty good job of application management.
Ubuntu is fine as a point of comparison or suggestion, but I don't
believe Stephen was suggesting that any other system's way of doing
something should be taken verbatim. I leave it to him to comment further.
Also, There's a huge problem with the comparison to Ubuntu's Add/Remove.
Our packagemanager is intended to manage *all* packages on the system
and, as a result, is more like Synpatic (available in Ubuntu) than it is
like the Add/Remove application.
The Add/Remove application from what I remember from using it, is
strictly about managing GUI Desktop Applications.
If you want that sort of functionality, then we need to come up with our
own equivalent to the Add/Remove application and use *another* property
*in addition* to the categorisation to determine whether an application
is shown there.
packagemanager is not the place to do that unless you want to have a
special mode that only manages "GUI applications" or some such thing.
Cheers,
--
Shawn Walker
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