Hi Praveen, Thanks for the prompt reply.
On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 12:22 PM Praveen Arimbrathodiyil < prav...@onenetbeyond.org> wrote: > > > On 14/04/23 9:37 am, Yogesh Powar wrote: > > Hi Praveen, > > > > Great news about multi-state cooperative. > > > > I have a couple of questions. I could have sent you a direct message, > > but similar questions might be relevant to others on the list. > > > > Is money (a share price of 1000) the only criterion to become a member? > > Every member has to abide by https://prav.app/coc and we are drafting > the byelaws for the coop currently, they will have to follow the byelaws > as well. Once we register, the new members will have to be approved by > the elected board. > Ok. > > > Have you explored Matrix (such as element.io <http://element.io> over > > XMPP) at all? > > Yes. > > Philosophically both matrix and XMPP are equivalent due to federation > and interoperability. Due to some design choices, we prefer xmpp over > matrix (semi-anonymous public groups as we want to use phone number as > id, lighter groups due to groups on single servers though that loses > some redundancy, etc). > > See more such questions at https://prav.app/faq/ > > Matrix costs more in terms of system resources and effort to manage (we > have experience of running poddery.com and diasp.in which has both > matrix and xmpp). These extra costs do offer some benefits like > redundancy of messages, but we feel that may not be required for a > general messaging system. Though organizations that can afford to pay > more may still find Matrix better. > > Messages are stored on all participating servers in matrix, and they are > stored forever by default, in contrast, xmpp groups are hosted on a > single server and by default messages are deleted after some time (this > can be configured by the admin). This also means matrix servers have to > continuously merge the state and history across all participating > servers (this can be thought of like a git repo being forked and merged > all the time) and this takes a lot of cpu and ram. > > Matrix do have better client apps compared to xmpp right now, but we > feel this can be improved over time and the rough edges to xmpp clients > can be fixed, especially since there is a lot of people coming back to > xmpp. We also hope to invest in fixing some of these missing features in > xmpp. > Good to know. Thanks Yogesh > > > Thanks > > Yogesh > > > > On Wed, Apr 5, 2023 at 6:39 PM Pirate Praveen via plug-mail > > <plug-mail@plug.org.in <mailto:plug-mail@plug.org.in>> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > We specifically need your help to register a multi state cooperative > > society, which needs 50 members each from two states and we have 50+ > > from Kerala and 26 from Maharashtra. If some of you joins and helps > > find some more members we can register this soon. > > Read more below > > Unpopular policies > > In January 2021, popular messaging app WhatsApp changed their privacy > > policy to combine all the data it gets with Facebook, giving users > only > > two choices: accept the new privacy policy, or leave WhatsApp > > altogether. > > > > In a world where using WhatsApp has become a norm, that wasn’t really > > a choice. > > > > There were many users who did not like this new privacy policy. They > > tried to leave WhatsApp for other messaging apps, like Telegram and > > Signal. A sizable amount of users disagreed with the push by > WhatsApp, > > but leaving a popular app like WhatsApp comes with its own > > costs—losing touch with contacts on WhatsApp. That meant, unless they > > were willing to be cut out from a lot of their contacts, people had > to > > still leave one foot in the WhatsApp door. > > > > How different the situation is with phone numbers! If you had similar > > disagreements with a phone company A, you could have easily switch to > > any other phone company B and still be able to talk to other contacts > > by calls and SMS. Your contacts need not switch to company B to > > communicate with you. (In fact, the reason phone companies don’t make > > decisions like this is because they know customers will immediately > > leave them for a better provider. The ability for users to leave > keeps > > phone companies under control). > > > > A solution: XMPP > > Imagine if all messaging apps were like phone and email, where users > of > > any app can contact with users of other apps. In the above example, > > people would have a real choice to leave WhatsApp and just use any > > other service. > > > > This is exactly what we need. > > > > XMPP is a protocol that lets this happen. For the uninitiated, you > can > > think of XMPP as a superpowered SMS, which works over the Internet > and > > allows modern features like calls and image-sharing. It’s not a > > single company like WhatsApp but a standard that different companies > > can provide for. > > > > Messaging apps and services that that use XMPP can talk to each > other. > > Examples of such apps are: Blabber, Snikket, Siskin, and more (think > of > > these like Google SMS, Samsung SMS, Silence, and any other SMS app). > > Examples of XMPP service providers include disroot.org > > <http://disroot.org>, poddery.com <http://poddery.com>, > > monocles.de <http://monocles.de>, and a whole bunch more (think of > > these as different > > service providers, like BSNL, Vi, or Airtel). > > > > To drive home the point: any user registered on any XMPP service can > > talk to other users of any other XMPP service. (disroot.org > > <http://disroot.org> users and > > poddery.com <http://poddery.com> users can send each other messages, > > just like BSNL users > > can exchange SMSes and calls with people on Airtel). This gives users > > choice of service providers: a single company does not control > > everything, and we won’t be forced to accept arbitrary terms by > > services like WhatsApp to be in touch with others. > > > > Ease of adoption > > Unfortunately, the current onboarding process on most XMPP services > is > > not user friendly at all compared to WhatsApp. This issue, combined > > with the lack of awareness about XMPP services among common people, > has > > made mass adoption difficult. > > > > Things don’t have to be this way, and Quicksy is a leading example of > > this. Like WhatsApp, Quicksy allows users to register in a few taps > by > > entering their phone number and receiving an OTP. But because it’s an > > XMPP service, Quicksy users can talk to users on other XMPP services. > > > > We are developing the Prav app to complement Quicksy by providing a > > compatible app (Prav users can talk with Quicksy users) and offering > > more choice to users. People can easily sign up for Prav in the same > > way they do for Quicksy, but now they have more than one alternative > to > > choose from. Before, the choice only existed for people willing to > > figure out the complex setup process on other XMPP providers; with > Prav > > they now have another easy-to-set-up alternative. > > > > Respects users’ freedom > > Our app is ‘free software’, which means users get freedom to run, > > study, modify, share and share the modified versions. When we say > > ‘free’, we mean ‘freedom’ and not ‘free-of-cost’. To avoid > > ambiguity of the word ‘free’, we also call it swatantra software. > > Examples of free software are VLC Media Player, Firefox, Debian, > > Quicksy, Prav etc. You can learn more about Free Software and why it > is > > important here 1. > > > > This means that the original source code behind a swatantra app is > > freely available for anyone to inspect; people can conduct > independent > > security audits instead of having to trust a company’s word about > > what data they are or are not collecting. Such an auditing can also > > verify whether the app sends messages in end-to-end encrypted form or > > not. > > > > In contrast, WhatsApp does not provide source code for their app and > we > > can never verify independently whether the app encrypts messages as > > they claim. > > > > Running as a cooperative > > Choice aside, Quicksy is run by a single person, which has its own > > drawbacks—most significantly, having a single point of failure if > > something goes wrong. We want to offer Prav as a cooperative, adding > > more resilience by managing the service as a group, having a > democratic > > decision making structure. > > > > In India, cooperative societies can be registered under state > > cooperative laws or under central laws. Only people from the same > state > > can become members if we register under any state cooperative laws. > So, > > we prefer registering as a Multi State Cooperative Society to allow > > people from different states to join as members. Members elect the > > leadership team of a cooperative for a specific term and there will > be > > regular elections to elect the leadership team giving members > > democratic control over the cooperative. > > > > Every member will have one vote irrespective of the number of shares > > they hold in the cooperative, making it impossible for big companies > to > > aquire the cooperative and take control of decisions. Acquisition by > > big companies is an issue as it can compromise the service: as an > > example, WhatsApp was an independent company, but it was eventually > > bought up by Facebook, which compromised the service in may ways, > such > > as by weakening its privacy policy over the years. > > > > Next steps > > For this project to be successful, we need more people to join as > > members of the Multi State Cooperative Society. By law, we need at > > least 50 members each from two Indian states before we can do the > > registration. > > > > At the moment, we have 50+ members from Kerala, 26 members from > > Maharashtra, and a few from various other states. Details are at > > https://prav.app/become-a-member <https://prav.app/become-a-member> > 2. > > > > By registering as a member of the Prav Multi State Cooperative > Society, > > you can help us with your experience, knowledge and the amount that > you > > give for buying shares will help us in funding for the app and > running > > the service. Plus, your membership will help us cover the legal > > requirements for becoming a cooperative society. > > > > In case, we fail to reach 50 members from a second state by June 15 > > this year, we plan to register as a cooperative in Kerala. This is an > > intermediate measure: we will still work to meet the necessary > > requirements in other states, and once that’s done, we will register > > as a Multi State Cooperative Society as originally planned. > > > > How you can help > > If we don’t get enough members by June 15th 2023, we will have to go > > through a two-step process to get members. To prevent this, we’re > > trying to onboard members as soon as possible—and we need your help! > > > > You can register as a member and spread the word to your friends to > > register as well, by visiting https://prav.app/become-a-member/ > > <https://prav.app/become-a-member/> > > > > Read more > > > https://azadmaidan.in/t/prav-app-reclaiming-choice-of-service-providers/83 > < > https://azadmaidan.in/t/prav-app-reclaiming-choice-of-service-providers/83 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > plug-mail mailing list > > plug-mail@plug.org.in <mailto:plug-mail@plug.org.in> > > http://list.plug.org.in/listinfo/plug-mail > > <http://list.plug.org.in/listinfo/plug-mail> > > > > > > > > -- > > Thank You > > > > Yogesh Powar > > https://yogeshpowar.github.io/blog/ <https://yogeshpowar.github.io/blog/ > > > -- Thank You Yogesh Powar https://yogeshpowar.github.io/blog/
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