Unless there are stats that there is a significant percentage of IE6/7 users for PmWiki, I think the default skin should be tableless, with the IE6/IE7 skin documented and available.
Given that -- for IE usage only -- IE6/7 share is only around 7%, I don't think its a good default option. (source - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Internet_Explorer#Desktop_market_share_by_year_and_version ) -Michael Paulukonis http://www.xradiograph.com <http://goog_2112721603>Interference Patterns (a blog) <http://www.xradiograph.com%5Cinterference> @XraysMonaLisa <https://twitter.com/XraysMonaLisa> http://michaelpaulukonis.com <http://www.BestAndroidResources.com> Sent from somewhere in the Cloud (hearthrug, by the fender) On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 3:25 AM, Petko Yotov <5...@5ko.fr> wrote: > I have reviewed this skin. The changes from the default skin are indeed > very minimal: it simply replaces the <table>, <tr> and <td> tags with <div> > tags, and inserts 3 instructions in the skin css file to display these > <div> elements as if they were a table. > > I believe this will make it look exactly the same, pixel for pixel, > compared to the current default skin, for browsers that support CSS 2.1 > (most browsers since 2006, MSIE since 2009). > > http://caniuse.com/#search=css%20table > > It will not look the same with MSIE 6 and 7, where the main page content > will appear pushed down below the bottom of the sidebar. > > Do you think it is better to replace the default skin, or to distribute > PmWiki with both skins? > > Petko > > > H. Fox writes: > >> I'm spending some time on this because I think a lot of people in the >> PmWiki community would want to improve the default skin so it uses CSS >> for separating the template design from the semantics of the wiki >> content. >> >> One fantastic charastic of PmWiki is that upgrading rarely breaks >> things. I don't know whether hurting compatibility with Intnernet >> Exploer 6 & 7 is worth having better semantic structure by not putting >> the wiki sidebar and page content inside HTML Table. This post has >> some information for everyone to consider, if interested. >> >> Some background... >> >> I worked on the PmWiki default skin in the past. As I recall, there >> was discussion on the lists about it, and by this I mean aside from >> the periodic discussion that would pop up about why a table shouldn't >> be in there. >> >> I learned a lot by contributing to the development of the skin. Pm was >> extraordinarily helpful guiding me along. I'm amazed the skin from >> 2006 has lasted, virtually unchanged, into 2014.(*note) >> >> Because I spent so much time working on the skin I recognize why the >> skin is the way it is, pretty much line-by-line. Pm wanted the skin to >> be an easily-understandable starting point for someone to build upon, >> while providing a consistent appearance in lots of browsers on lots of >> platforms (cross-browser compatibility). >> >> One important lesson I learned was: cross-browser compatibility is a >> vastly un-appreciated art! >> >> We used a browser-compatibility testing service called "BrowserCam", >> now defunct, to see screenshot images that showed how various browsers >> on various platforms rendered the skin as it developed. BrowserCam >> screenshots could be _brutal_ about exposing weaknesses in a given >> HTML/CSS layout. Chunks of content might disappear, unexpectedly move >> or resize, or render oddly in some other completely unexpected manner. >> >> Summary: >> At the time the default skin was created people wanted to see the >> table removed for "tableless web design", but that would *definitely* >> have reduced cross-browser compatibility beyond a level Pm was >> comfortable with, so the table remained. >> >> Flash forward to the present... >> >> There's a feature of CSS 2.1 (and newer) called "The CSS table model" >> documented at http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/tables.html#table-display . >> From that page, >> >> "The CSS table model is based on the HTML4 table model, >> in which the structure of a table closely parallels the >> visual layout of the table." >> >> This feature of CSS enables us to replace the HTML table with a CSS table. >> >> table -> { display: table } >> tr -> { display: table-row } >> td -> { display: table-cell } >> >> Some may say the proposed template at >> http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Skins/DefaultSkinWithoutTable is not a >> tableless design, rather it's a still-tabled design that substitutes a >> CSS Table for the HTML table. Possibly, but I think a CSS table is >> distinctly different from a HTML table. The difference between { >> display: table } and <table> is akin to the difference between { >> font-weight:bold } and <strong>. >> >> Switching to a CSS table *will* break the design in some of the "long >> tail" of old browsers the default skin supports. Most notably IE6 and >> IE7 will not render CSS tables properly. >> >> On the other hand, not all user agents are browsers. Machines >> (notably web crawlers) and screen readers shouldn't be overlooked; >> removing the HTML table may help them. >> >> It boils down to >> - whether the the CSS Table will become interpreted as a >> "presentational" table rather than a "semantic" table, and >> - whether separating semantics from presentation is important >> enough to justify reducing compatibility with a tiny fraction >> of browsers. >> >> I think the CSS Table will be interpreted as a presentational table >> and the switch would be, when everything is considered, an >> improvement. >> >> Hagan >> >> (*note) As I wrote nearly a year ago, the skin lacks Responsive Web >> Design and needs better support for mobile devices. It's even more >> true now. I still believe there could be small changes that would >> improve mobile-usability without compromising the skin's goals. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pmwiki-devel mailing list >> pmwiki-devel@pmichaud.com >> http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-devel >> > > _______________________________________________ > pmwiki-devel mailing list > pmwiki-devel@pmichaud.com > http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-devel >
_______________________________________________ pmwiki-devel mailing list pmwiki-devel@pmichaud.com http://www.pmichaud.com/mailman/listinfo/pmwiki-devel