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Progressive News & Views (since 1982)
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James, I didn't intentionally edit your post. I thought I deleted the tail
end of what was already posted in order to clean up and shorten the post.
I am dead set against censoring anyone. My mistake for cutting out
something. If you could post what was deleted I promise not to cut any of
your submissions.
Some of what you have written is over my head. Obviously I'm not going to
come close to you with your knowledge on this topic nor the understanding
you have for it. My remarks are mostly what I feel but also what others
have written about it.
As for not eating meat, I've only been a vegetarian for one week (grin)
and until I lose another 30 pounds I'm not going to be eating much of
anything. The documentary, Witness had a profound effect on me and my
choice not to eat animal flesh -- and I recommend that anyone with access
to LINKS try to see it. It may be available on their web site for those
who would like to stream it. When I look at hamburger now I can almost
hear it moo.
I appreciate your informed commentary James but I have to confess that I
do not know the difference between ethology and ethnology and will have to
look it up (grin). BUT I did read the Edwin Black book on eugenics in the
U.S. and in Germany. Edwin is a masterful researcher/investigator (and has
a team of interns working with him to gather and investigate his
subject(s)) and has written several other books of interest to me which I
was informed by reading, especially his book on IBM during the war - how
they provided the punch cards used to keep tract of the Jews and other
prisoners in concentration and work camps -- and the Transfer Agreement
which has been interpreted differently by others but is much better
understood after reading Edwin's work.
By the way, try to listen to Thom Hartmann also. I prefer him to Malloy
because I just got tired of the constant rant from Mike - and Hartmann, in
my opinion, is much more accurate and therefore a much more reliable
commentator.
Hank
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> Progressive News & Views (since 1982)
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> From: "James a. Mulick, PhD" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> Thanks for the clarification, Hank. But why did you edit my post to delete
> the material about Panksepp's work? The parts you deleted showed that he did
> not suddenly become an antivivisectionist, despite training in ethology (and
> neither did I despite my training and study of ethology). In fact, I
> concluded, with most other students of behavior in the U. S., that European
> Ethology was a dead end, emphasizing instincts as it does and not the
> intricate epigenetic process that life actually entails for individual
> organisms during their life spans. It was much more popular in Europe, where
> sophisticated intellectuals needed an excuse for their lack of effective
> resistance to fascism when it was just getting started. You see, ethology
> teaches that emotions like aggression are the inevitable gift of evolution
> in many species including our own, and so these nasty emotions must be
> displaced into substitute activities like football and other organized and
> non-lethal competition - an experimentally disproven theory referred to by
> American and most British psychologists as the flush toilet theory of
> motivation (you know, if it can't flush, its gonna spill all over the place
> and get really yucky) . Perhaps Americans will now find ethology appealing
> with the current turn towards fascism, but they have not in past decades. I
> realize this level of detail is likely to break on the rocks of your and
> Balcombe's ideology, but you invited him to enter the discussion to refute
> an irrelevant point of mine. Speaking of ideology and ethology, the founder
> of the field, Konrad Lorenz, earned his first job in Hitler's Germany for
> writing pro-eugenic papers (you know, the theory that supported the position
> that some people were "worthless to live" - the mentally retarded, the
> gypsies, and the Jews -- in that order).. You can read all about Lorenz and
> his history by getting a copy of the following paper in SCIENCE magazine:
> <Eisenberg, L. (1972). The human nature of human nature. Science, 176,
> 123-128.>. When Lorenz got his Nobel Prize (from the tall, blond Swedes who
> resisted Hitler the way a feather resists the wind), he wrote a swan song of
> a little book entitled CIVILIZED MAN'S EIGHT DEADLY SINS, in which he
> virtually reiterated his old "some of us are biologically better that
> others, and so should be allowed to do what we instinctively know is best"
> message in order to avoid the increasing "domestication" of the human
> species (by which it seems he was referring to miscegenation). So Balcombe
> is not the first ethologist to misinterpret what he observed, and what I
> said about ethnology is almost as true about ethology (which emphasizes
> non-experimental field methods much more than does Comparative Behavior
> Development - my first specialty during the 1970s).
> I'll stop, if you stop Hank...or maybe I'll give up on this issue in favor
> of what we are all really interested in reading about on your list. Besides,
> Mike Malloy is subbing for Randy Rhodes and I'd rather listen more closely
> to him while I work on my email. You should let my earlier full message be
> posted, though.
>
> ********************************************
>
> An article of possible relevance to this thread:
>
> Boston.com
>
>
>
> Jury convicts animal welfare activists
> By Jeffrey Gold, Associated Press Writer | March 3, 2006
>
> TRENTON, N.J. --Six animal-rights supporters face up to seven years in
> prison after being convicted of using a Web site to incite threats,
> harassment and vandalism against a company that tests drugs and household
> products on animals.
>
> A jury returned its verdict against Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty and six
> of its members on Thursday after three days of deliberations.
>
> Federal Judge Anne E. Thompson ordered five of them held without bail until
> a sentencing hearing on June 7. The defendants, all in their late 20s or
> early 30s, face three to seven years in prison and fines up to $250,000.
>
> The government charged that SHAC waged a five-year campaign against
> Huntingdon Life Sciences, posting on its Web site information about the
> lab's employees and those who do business with Huntingdon. The information
> included their home phone numbers, addresses and where their children
> attended school.
>
> Many of those people saw their homes vandalized, and they and their families
> received threatening e-mails, faxes and phone calls.
>
> SHAC, based in Philadelphia, maintained its actions were protected under the
> First Amendment.
>
> The defendants were not accused of directly making threats or carrying out
> vandalism. Instead, they were charged with animal enterprise terrorism,
> stalking and other offenses.
>
> Mike Caulfield, Huntingdon's general manager, said the verdict was "a
> victory for democracy, research and patients."
>
> "The government and this jury have sent a strong message to those who would
> ignore the democratic process and resort to criminal activity to advance
> their political views," Caulfield said in a statement.
>
> SHAC President Pamelyn Ferdin said the jury was fooled by the government's
> case and the judge's order to remove victims' names and home addresses from
> its Web site reeked of fascism.
>
> "This is a scary path for all Americans," said Ferdin, a former child star
> who was the voice of Lucy in the "Peanuts" movies and played Felix Unger's
> daughter Edna on TV's "The Odd Couple."
>
> "Here is a government, a feckless federal government, who spent millions of
> taxpayer dollars to wage an assault on all our constitutional rights," she
> said.
>
> Ferdin became leader of the group in 2004 after its former president, Kevin
> Kjonaas, and the others were indicted. She was not charged.
>
> Many of the targets of the harassment testified that they started looking
> over their shoulders when walking or driving, changed their phone numbers or
> even moved. Some kept their children from playing outdoors, and several
> bought guns.
>
> Sally Dillenback broke into tears as she recounted an anonymous e-mail that
> threatened to cut open her son and fill him with poison "the way Huntingdon
> does with the animals."
>
> Marian Harlos testified she got late-night calls in which someone asked:
> "Are you scared? Do you think the puppies should be scared?"
>
> She said masked protesters parked down the street from her house,
> videotaping her comings and goings. They barged into her office, screaming
> and tossing leaflets, and others ruined the rear door with glue and animal
> stickers, she said
>
>
> James A. Mulick, Ph.D.
> Professor, Pediatrics & Psychology
> The Ohio State University
>
>
>
>
>
>
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