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Charles,
I am honestly fascinated by the fantastic things you say. I am
reasonably well read and with a modicum of historical knowledge but
have never read the kinds of things you say happened. I say
fantastic because the facts as you put them bear very little
relationship to history as I know it.
However, I am always willing to learn (by drawing my own conclusions)
so would appreciate it if you could direct me to the sources that
allow you to draw the conclusions you post here. I must say however
that much of what you say appears like religiously inspired attacks
on a rival religion, attacks which I must say seem to lack (on my
knowledge of history) any real credibility. Is there a clue to the
source of your material in your earlier comment that you were
responding to attacks on the founders of Islam?
So, can you direct me to any source (which is not a religious tract
or writing) from which I can make an assessment of my own.
Garth Cartledge
At 04:34 AM 10/04/2006, you wrote:
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>Progressive News & Views (since 1982)
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>
>"There is ample information which I suggest you read in the bible (what
>Christians refer to as the "Old Testament")..."
>
>The search for truth never confuses propaganda with fact. The 'bible' is
>full of things that are contradictory and physically impossible, so if any
>part of a document is provable to be untrue, the whole document is suspect,
>and therefore unreliable. I don't get any factual information from the
>'bible' except the character of the church. The Romans saw the 'old
>testament' to be quite successful population control documents (as I do)
>that was vastly superior to their own control measures and wisely adapted
>them for the basis of the 'new testament' which also turned out to be a
>vastly successful population control document, and the Jews took the blame
>for the accompanying treacheries, which led to the Islamic hatred for the
>Jews (a mistake by Mohammed). The Romans were awed by their inability to
>turn a Jew into a Roman, no matter the coercion used, and wanted their
>slaves to be so loyal.to them that they adopted the whole scam. ...and it
>worked, did it not? And at the same time, it totally converted the 300 year
>old Jesus anti-slavery rebellion into their very own slave control
>organization.
>
>From: "Hank Roth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 6:50 AM
>Subject: [pnews-views] Re: [pnews-news] Bodies and Souls - Slavery in Early
>Christianity
>
>
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> > Progressive News & Views (since 1982)
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> >
> >
> > ---
> >
> >
> > This forum has always been about truth, not fantasy Charles. Illogical
> > generalities like "pre and post Christian slavery was different" does not
> > make any sense; it does not raise the level of discourse. There is ample
> > information which I suggest you read in the bible (what Christians refer
> > to as the "Old Testament") about slaves and how they are to be treated and
> > there is voluminous writing about pagan slaves and slaves which were the
> > result of the European wars which was not a conspiracy of the Christian
> > Church and Antebellum slavery in America. None of it resembles your
> > description. Racism was never hard-coded into slavery though it was a
> > componet of it. Freedom is not codified in the Vatican but it is codified
> > in the U.S. Constition - even as it was written later, like the 14th
> > Amendment, etc. Ravings and rants about the Church could have legitimacy
> > for a lot of things but not this.
> >
> > If you are going to refer to historical facts, keep it objective and cite
> > your cites. When you claim to know something we don't, give your proof,
> > not your rant.
> >
> > As for genetics, it sounds as-if you are quoting from ideas of the Third
> > Reich or from the Klu Klux Klan?
> >
> > Hank
> >
> > On Sun, 9 Apr 2006, Charles W. Smith wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---
> > >
> > > Pre and post christian slavery was different. Pre-christian slavery was
> > > chattel slavery, like racial slavery here in the USA before 1865.
> > > Converting the chattel slaves to serfs upon the establishment of
> > > christianity as the Roman state religion was approximately the same as
>the
> > > conversion of the chattel slaves of the American confederacy to public
> > > property slaves after the civil war. This conversion to serfdom sucked
>in
> > > all the remaining free commoners in the empire into serfdom, thus
>enslaving
> > > the entire non-noble population, which lasted for 1500 years. The
> > > conversion of the American racial slaves to public property sucked in
>all of
> > > the free Negroes into this slavery expansion scam, no matter where they
> > > resided, and they were frozen in this status until 1965. The "lords"
>were
> > > christians in name only to facilitate the control system. They ignored
>all
> > > of the rules of christianity which were designed to control their
>slaves.
> > > Killing a slave was not murder for them. Raping a slave was not rape
>for
> > > them. Stealing from a slave was not theft for them. "Adultery" was for
>the
> > > purpose controlling the genetic character of the slaves. The ban on
>lying
> > > was to keep them correctly informed as of the doings of their slaves.
>And
> > > much more was simply peacekeeping among the slaves, keeping them in
>enforced
> > > poverty and ignorance, keeping them meek and obedient and industrious
>for
> > > the profits of the lords.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >>
> >
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Garth Cartledge
" Despotism sits nowhere so secure as under the effigy and ensigns of
Freedom", From Imaginary Conversations of Greeks and Romans (1853) by
Walter Savage Landor 1775-1864
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