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On Mon, 29 May 2006, Lindy Greene wrote:
>
> --
> A friend of mine and I saw "United Flight 93" last night, and we were
> talking about the same thing. I think, first of all, that it is nearly
> impossible for people to look objectively at their own political system,
> government, religion, or culture. They internalize perspectives that the way
> they live, think, believe, and operate is the only true one. They believe
> the pap fed to them in the history books that the United States is a
> democracy that safeguards civil liberties and champions human rights - in
> the face of incontrovertible past and current evidence that such is far from
> the case.
>
Linda: In conversation I can only address one paragraph at a time ..
These are my thoughts. I do agree with you about a lot of things and I do
believe we all base our assumptions on our experiences and what we already
know. But I must remind you that LOGIC by itself is not proof, it is only
a tool for maintaining validity.
It is a fallacy to "internalize" unknowns and turn them into
knowns. I am reminded of what Rumsfeld said about there being "unknown
unknowns." It was something I didn't happen to disagree with him about
although the statement was confusing to many. It wasn't to me.
Are you familiar with Prothagoras and his geometric theory?
There are many proofs for the theory.
The main thing we have to be aware of about logic is it has nothing (or
very little) to do with the truth. Logic is a useful tool if you are after
the truth but it doesn't prove the truth, on the validity of the method or
argument to find the truth. LOGIC concerns itself not with truth, but with
VALIDITY.
In the United States we are taught in school from a very young age that we
do live in a democracy and we do respect, cherish and DEFEND civil rights.
Nevertheless there have been many times when governments establish their
own agendas which are contrary to civil rights - as was done during the
Civil War, and is again being done with these so-called wars on drugs and
terrorism, etc. BUT we are still a country where the people believe in
democracy (a Democratic Republic - in the U.S.) and we passionately
believe in preserving our civil rights, which is why we hate it when
George Bush and gang brings us the Patriot Act and even some Democrats
voted for it and when people are incarcerated and and due process is
ignored which puts us on the path away from democracy and toward fascism.
But that is the business and the agenda of a government. It does not
appear to be a conspiracy and it is no secret that the more liberty we
lose the less democratic we become.
I realize I have not touched on the subject of 9/11 so I will but only
momentarily this time. There very well may have been a conspiracy to
attack the U.S., to be complicit with the attack or even orchestrate it,
but there is no proof of that. There is only conspiratorical assumptions
and logic of it alone does not guarantee the truth of it.
To claim 9/11 was a conspiracy and pointing to questions and there were
many is not the proof you need to turn logical falacies into truth.
Affirming the consequences is valid in so far as goes and these are
premises, but they are minor premises which together does not make it a
conspiracy (yet). Even some conspiracies that exist about acts before and
after the catastrophe (those actions taken by the administration which
might be more incompetence than a concerted action to deceive) do not make
the major event, that of the attack on the world trade towers and Pentagon
on 9/11 the conspiracy that your assertion claims it to be.
(As noted above I can only answer one paragraph at a time)
Hank
> Also, I think it's just psychologically untenable for most people to accept
> that their own government can perpetrate such evil - so they choose to
> believe that claims about lying, pre-emptive war, spying, indeterminate
> detention, torture - and government complicity in 9-11 - are the lunatic
> ravings of demented conspiracy -theory hawkers.
>
> I used to have a friend who was a Holocaust survivor, and she couldn't stand
> to hear anything negative about the U.S. government. I understood, though,
> that it stemmed from her need to feel that her "new" government would
> protect and care about her.
>
> But we can't hide our heads in the sand. I think that the reason no more
> "terror" attacks have hit the U.S. is because Bush hasn't needed them. He
> got what he wanted. Now, what about during election time - when he may not
> want to legitimately step down?
>
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