The United States was not created as a secular Nation, nothing written by our Founding Fathers (other than your revisionist history) could make any sane individual come to such a conclusion. ----- the United States Bill of Rights prevents the establishment of a national church ... in effect, making America a secular nation.
The First Amendment to the United States Constitution <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution> is written as "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances" and is held to be applied to the state via the Fourteenth Amendment <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution>. Furthermore, Article Six of the United States Constitution <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Six_of_the_United_States_Constitution> prohibits the use of any religious test as qualification for any public office. On Thursday, October 9, 2014 2:12:31 PM UTC-5, KeithInTampa wrote: > > The United States was not created as a secular Nation, nothing written > by our Founding Fathers (other than your revisionist history) could make > any sane individual come to such a conclusion. It is true that Americans > have a right to choose what faith if any, that they may wish to follow or > subscribe to, but our laws, our culture, our history, our very principals, > even the buildings that were first created in this Nation, all bear witness > to us being a Christian Nation, period. > > > > On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 3:00 PM, plainolamerican <[email protected] > <javascript:>> wrote: > >> America is a Christian Nation-State, >> --- >> wrong again ... America was created as a secular nation. >> >> In 1797, the United States Senate >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate> ratified a treaty >> with Tripoli <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripoli> that stated in >> Article 11: >> >> As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, >> founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of >> enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as >> the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any >> Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising >> from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony >> existing between the two countries.[62] >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state#cite_note-62> >> >> >> >> with Christian morals, tenets, principals, and that is what has made us >> Great! >> --- >> hogwash. >> Establishment Clause <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Establishment_Clause> >> and Free Exercise Clause >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Exercise_Clause> >> >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Thomas_Jefferson_by_Rembrandt_Peale,_1800.jpg> >> >> >> Thomas Jefferson <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson>, the >> third President of the United States >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_United_States>, whose >> letter to the Danbury Baptists Association is often quoted in debates >> regarding the separation of church and state. >> >> In English, the exact term is an offshoot of the phrase, "wall of >> separation between church and state", as written in Thomas Jefferson >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson>'s letter to the Danbury >> Baptist Association >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptists_in_the_history_of_separation_of_church_and_state> >> >> in 1802. In that letter, referencing the First Amendment to the United >> States Constitution >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution>, >> >> Jefferson writes: >> >> Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between >> Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his >> worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not >> opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole >> American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law >> respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise >> thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church and State.[15 >> ] >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state#cite_note-Jefferson11-15> >> >> Jefferson was describing to the Baptists that the United States Bill of >> Rights prevents the establishment of a national church, and in so doing >> they did not have to fear government interference in their manner of >> worship. The Bill of Rights was one of the earliest examples in the world >> of complete religious freedom (adopted in 1791, only preceded by the >> Declaration >> of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_the_Rights_of_Man_and_of_the_Citizen> >> >> in 1789). >> >> >> On Thursday, October 9, 2014 1:47:46 PM UTC-5, KeithInTampa wrote: >>> >>> Opinion Noted Plain Ol'. Sadly for you, we are witnessing Americans >>> returning to their Christian roots, and seeking answers.....I know that >>> this bothers you, and that in and of itself is unfortunate. Whether you >>> like it, (and obviously you don't!) America is a Christian Nation-State, >>> with Christian morals, tenets, principals, and that is what has made us >>> Great! >>> >>> Keep on trying to re-write history! Let us know how that is working for >>> ya! >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 2:41 PM, plainolamerican <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> find a deprogramer who specializes in religious brainwashing asap. >>>> >>>> Americans do in fact believe in and support, the concept of >>>> "Community", >>>> --- >>>> yep .. some even promote socialism. >>>> >>>> they believe in an "Authority" including a "Higher Authority"; >>>> --- >>>> only some Americans. >>>> secular America is growing and the religious are dwindling. >>>> >>>> and the concept of "Eternity" is not a foreign concept to American >>>> Christians or even American Agnostics! >>>> --- >>>> eternity is a religious myth to ignore. >>>> so are gods and religions. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thursday, October 9, 2014 1:29:54 PM UTC-5, KeithInTampa wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Plain Ol cut and pasted: >>>>> >>>>> *"Jewish life is based on values like authority, community, and >>>>> eternity. As a result, American Jews sometimes find their Jewish values >>>>> at >>>>> odds with the values of the American society in which they live."* >>>>> >>>>> *"Americans pride themselves on being independent thinkers who recoil >>>>> at being told what to do or what to believe. How do we reconcile this >>>>> with >>>>> Judaism's central principle of mitzvah--our obligation to live life in >>>>> service to God according to a defined set of practices?"* >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Huh? This is "mumbo jumbo"! First, Americans do in fact believe in >>>>> and support, the concept of "Community", they believe in an "Authority" >>>>> including a "Higher Authority"; and the concept of "Eternity" is not a >>>>> foreign concept to American Christians or even American Agnostics! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Again Plain Ol', Mumbo Jumbo! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 2:22 PM, plainolamerican <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Show me where Judaism is in any way in conflict with Western society >>>>>> and culture please.....If you can show me that, I will march right along >>>>>> with you! >>>>>> ---- >>>>>> Jewish life is based on values like authority, community, and >>>>>> eternity. As a result, American Jews sometimes find their Jewish values >>>>>> at >>>>>> odds with the values of the American society in which they live. >>>>>> >>>>>> Americans pride themselves on being independent thinkers who recoil >>>>>> at being told what to do or what to believe. How do we reconcile this >>>>>> with >>>>>> Judaism's central principle of *mitzvah*--our obligation to live >>>>>> life in service to God according to a defined set of practices? >>>>>> Commandedness >>>>>> >>>>>> The Hebrew word mitzvah means "command." There is an identical word >>>>>> in Yiddish (*mitzveh*) that means "good deed." Most people use these >>>>>> words interchangeably, but they are polar opposites. A good deed is >>>>>> done >>>>>> for another person out of kindness. A commandment is done to serve God >>>>>> out >>>>>> of obligation. The difference is that as Jews, we are obligated even >>>>>> when >>>>>> we're not feeling kindly or we think we've done enough. >>>>>> >>>>>> From a Jewish perspective, people who take the commandments upon >>>>>> themselves do not sacrifice their personal autonomy. According to the >>>>>> *Sayings >>>>>> of the Fathers* (6:2), "The only free person is one who is concerned >>>>>> with Torah." True autonomy comes when people can live free of the >>>>>> limitations of human nature by attaching themselves to a "Higher >>>>>> Authority." The Hebrew definition of mitzvah reflects this religious >>>>>> understanding, while the Yiddish one reflects a more secular view. >>>>>> Apparently, this debate has been going on long enough to enter the >>>>>> language. >>>>>> Reinterpretation >>>>>> >>>>>> The discrepancies between our American and Jewish values create a >>>>>> dilemma around which we have tiptoed. One of Judaism's greatest >>>>>> strengths >>>>>> has been its ability to adapt to its surroundings. In this spirit, we >>>>>> have >>>>>> created an "American Midrash" learning to live with certain >>>>>> contradictions. >>>>>> >>>>>> An example of American Midrash is our interpretation of Hanukkah and >>>>>> Passover as freedom holidays--reflecting American ideals. The Hanukkah >>>>>> story is actually about the internal Jewish struggle between >>>>>> assimilationists (Hellenists) and zealots (the Maccabees) who wanted to >>>>>> preserve Judaism from the influences of Greek society. But it fits >>>>>> better >>>>>> into our American context to see it as a battle for freedom of religion. >>>>>> >>>>>> Similarly, the point of the Passover story is not the physical >>>>>> freedom from slavery celebrated at the Red Sea and seder tables in >>>>>> America, >>>>>> but rather the events at Mount Sinai where the Israelites, freed from >>>>>> their >>>>>> Egyptian masters, were able to obey a new and more demanding master--God. >>>>>> >>>>>> An awareness of this contradiction is beginning to bubble to the >>>>>> surface. Rabbi Eric Yoffie, president of the Union for Reform Judaism, >>>>>> called for a Reform movement "grounded in autonomy and pluralism and >>>>>> also >>>>>> willing to talk of obligations." He called for observance that is >>>>>> "regular >>>>>> and consistent," and asserted that "our actions need not always begin >>>>>> with >>>>>> our own impulses." >>>>>> >>>>>> We live in a society where fulfilling our personal needs and desires >>>>>> is seen as our birthright. But as the late Professor Yeshayahu >>>>>> Leibowitz >>>>>> wrote in his essay "Commandments," "Every action through which one >>>>>> satisfies his own needs, whether physical or spiritual, is a service to >>>>>> himself and not service to God." >>>>>> More Contradictions >>>>>> >>>>>> Another contradiction: Except in times of extreme crisis, it is >>>>>> unusual for the American "we" to supersede the self. In Judaism, even >>>>>> our >>>>>> prayers are written in the plural. Herbert Bronstein, writing in >>>>>> *Tikkun* magazine, says, "Since God's covenant is with the community >>>>>> of Israel, a communal consciousness... transcends the individual self." >>>>>> >>>>>> Finally, American society is goal-oriented in nature, while Judaism >>>>>> is not. One can never do mitzvot well enough to stop doing them or reach >>>>>> the pinnacle of holiness and rest. Think of Neilah, the concluding Yom >>>>>> Kippur prayer service-- the shofar sounds, all is forgiven, and yet, the >>>>>> very next words speak of atoning for sin. As Jews, we understand >>>>>> observance >>>>>> as our way of tapping into eternity--being part of something more >>>>>> enduring >>>>>> than ourselves. >>>>>> >>>>>> After 350 years, we continue to struggle with what it means to be >>>>>> Jewish in America. >>>>>> >>>>>> While we cannot fully resolve the contradictions between our >>>>>> American and Jewish values, we might try acknowledging that the hyphen >>>>>> in >>>>>> American-Jewish is not always an uncomplicated path between our two >>>>>> realities. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thursday, October 9, 2014 12:03:26 PM UTC-5, KeithInTampa wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Show me where Judaism is in any way in conflict with Western society >>>>>>> and culture please.....If you can show me that, I will march right >>>>>>> along >>>>>>> with you! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The problem, is that Judaism is not in conflict with Western >>>>>>> Society! You can find some examples of some Jew who has been accused >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> sexual molestation, but nothing within Judaism itself approves of this. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 12:59 PM, plainolamerican < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> get a clue, zionist xian. >>>>>>>> When a culture such as zionism is at total odds with Western >>>>>>>> Culture, our values, and calls for the demise of yours, mine, and our >>>>>>>> children's way of life, then I take that threat seriously..... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> tell you what ... you eliminate the the muzzies in FL and I'll >>>>>>>> eliminate the zionist jews and muzzies in TN. Deal? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thursday, October 9, 2014 11:50:47 AM UTC-5, KeithInTampa wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I don't promote hatred. I promote common sense. When a culture >>>>>>>>> such as Islam/Sharia is at total odds with Western Culture, our >>>>>>>>> values, and >>>>>>>>> calls for the demise of yours, mine, and our children's way of life, >>>>>>>>> then I >>>>>>>>> take that threat seriously.....Obviously, while you sing another >>>>>>>>> rendition >>>>>>>>> of "Kum-Bay-Yah" or "We Are The World, We Are The Children"; and >>>>>>>>> swap >>>>>>>>> sugar with one of your towel headed brethren, you are naive and >>>>>>>>> blinded by >>>>>>>>> the threat, much like your Peeps Whoopi, Joy Behar, Rosie O'Donnell, >>>>>>>>> and a >>>>>>>>> host of other confused ignorant goofy women! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 12:25 PM, plainolamerican < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> one can only conclude that you are a hatemongering zionist xian >>>>>>>>>> promoting hatred and war against muslims in both the middle east and >>>>>>>>>> America. >>>>>>>>>> do your children know who your really are? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, October 9, 2014 11:18:52 AM UTC-5, plainolamerican >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The bigger development was the reaction >>>>>>>>>>> <http://newsok.com/article/5340759> of Oklahoma's religious and >>>>>>>>>>> social justice groups to Bennett. Instead of dividing the >>>>>>>>>>> community, >>>>>>>>>>> Bennett had brought together Christian, Jewish and Muslim groups as >>>>>>>>>>> well as >>>>>>>>>>> organizations like the NAACP and the ACLU to stand together at a >>>>>>>>>>> press >>>>>>>>>>> conference to denounce Bennett and demand an apology. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Rabbi Vered Harris of Oklahoma City's Temple B'nai Israel told >>>>>>>>>>> me, "I respect people of all religions, or no religions, who abide >>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>> America's core values of tolerance and respect. It's unfortunate >>>>>>>>>>> that Rep. >>>>>>>>>>> Bennett does not." >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I also spoke with the president of the Oklahoma Chapter of the >>>>>>>>>>> NAACP, Anthony Douglas, who said it was too late for Bennett to >>>>>>>>>>> apologize, >>>>>>>>>>> it was time for him to resign. Douglas, a Vietnam veteran, >>>>>>>>>>> commented that >>>>>>>>>>> Bennett is "promoting hatred and possibly even violence against >>>>>>>>>>> Muslim >>>>>>>>>>> Americans with his comments and there's simply no place for that >>>>>>>>>>> from our >>>>>>>>>>> elected officials." >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/19/opinion/obeidallah-anti-muslim >>>>>>>>>>> -bias/ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> [image: john bennett crazy facebok post] >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, October 9, 2014 9:45:19 AM UTC-5, KeithInTampa >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> A Zionist Christian? Again, this shows that you have not a >>>>>>>>>>>> clue what you ramble on about...... >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 9:48 AM, plainolamerican < >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Bennett is a zionist xian to ignore. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, October 9, 2014 6:30:27 AM UTC-5, Travis wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BareNakedIslam posted: "In a town hall appearance in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Muskogee, Republican Oklahoma State Rep. John Bennett told the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> assembled >>>>>>>>>>>>>> crowd that the expansion of rights for Muslim Americans is no >>>>>>>>>>>>>> different >>>>>>>>>>>>>> than the growth of the Nazi Party in Germany before World War >>>>>>>>>>>>>> II. Raw >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Story Ben" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> New post on *BARE NAKED ISLAM* >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.barenakedislam.com/?author=1> My favorite >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oklahoma Congressman, John Bennett, says: “Muslims can’t be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> trusted if they >>>>>>>>>>>>>> follow Islam” >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.barenakedislam.com/2014/10/08/my-favorite-oklahoma-congressman-john-bennett-says-muslims-cant-be-trusted-if-they-follow-islam/> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BareNakedIslam <http://www.barenakedislam.com/?author=1> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> In a town hall appearance in Muskogee, Republican Oklahoma >>>>>>>>>>>>>> State Rep. John Bennett told the assembled crowd that the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> expansion of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rights for Muslim Americans is no different than the growth of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Nazi >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Party in Germany before World War II. Raw Story Bennett argued >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that there >>>>>>>>>>>>>> are no distinctions between radical Islamists and everyday […] >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Read more of this post >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.barenakedislam.com/2014/10/08/my-favorite-oklahoma-congressman-john-bennett-says-muslims-cant-be-trusted-if-they-follow-islam/> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *BareNakedIslam <http://www.barenakedislam.com/?author=1>* >>>>>>>>>>>>>> | October 8, 2014 at 6:20 pm | Categories: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> EnemyWithin-America >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.barenakedislam.com/?taxonomy=category&term=enemywithin-america>, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Islam in America >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.barenakedislam.com/?taxonomy=category&term=islam-in-america> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> | URL: http://wp.me/p276zM-18u7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Comment >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.barenakedislam.com/2014/10/08/my-favorite-oklahoma-congressman-john-bennett-says-muslims-cant-be-trusted-if-they-follow-islam/#respond> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> See all comments >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.barenakedislam.com/2014/10/08/my-favorite-oklahoma-congressman-john-bennett-says-muslims-cant-be-trusted-if-they-follow-islam/#comments> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://subscribe.wordpress.com/?key=7f89380f46003915c34c2cdd2b126a38&email=bovinescatologists%40gmail.com&b=LC-68%2F%3Fr.6ktrdO%3F%2BHR%7ES%7Efugc2yAlV%2BQWSv%2BZgWOXZCICeo7JC> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to no longer receive posts from BARE NAKED ISLAM. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Change your email settings at Manage Subscriptions >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://subscribe.wordpress.com/?key=7f89380f46003915c34c2cdd2b126a38&email=bovinescatologists%40gmail.com>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Trouble clicking?* Copy and paste this URL into your >>>>>>>>>>>>>> browser: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.barenakedislam.com/2014/10/08/my-favorite-oklahom >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a-congressman-john-bennett-says-muslims-cant-be-trusted-if-t >>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey-follow-islam/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. >>>>>>>>>>>>> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group >>>>>>>>>>>>> /PoliticalForum >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>>> * It's active and moderated. 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