That was just one the big lie that the Obama's fed to the American voters. He also promised if you liked what you have you could keep it....WRONG! My niece and a cousin lost their insurance that they were paying for because it did not meet the standards set by some blankty blankty beauracrat in Never Neverland. Their policies met their needs but not the needs of the beauracrats. Another BIG BOLD FACE LIE not cuts in service.......you add millions of people to the system and no cuts to you.....come on that denies common sense.....where is the service coming from for the new millions of people? Absolutely no mention of increasing the medical infrastructure to service the millions they were adding to the system....totally irresposible planning! Then to say all of this is going to be cheaper when he hires 50,000 new IRS employees to implement the system at a minium of $100,000 per year with benefits and they have a job on the rolls for the next 25 or 30 years....come on America wake up.....When Obama and Pelosi and Reid feed you a line of BS don't get hooked because they all claim it's free or no new additional costs.... In a message dated 12/1/2014 3:19:49 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes:
It's unrealistic to think that we can add 40 million individuals to some form or fashion of our American Health Care System for free, and the overall cost go down.....(As someone alluded to yesterday!) On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 5:20 PM, 'jim' via Historical Pictorial <[email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) > wrote: Keith: I agree with most of what you say. I disagree that a benighted electorate wants "free health care." Health care costs something. But what, I think, most people want is a system paid through payroll deduction and that, for the user, works simply: no fuss, no muss, no bother delivery. That's not too much to hope for. It's not unealistic pie-in-the-sky. Jim On Monday, December 1, 2014 4:32:52 PM UTC-5, KeithInTampa wrote: Hey Jim! I will be the first to acknowledge that our health care system has a number of flaws, and needs work. I am all for some type of comprehensive reform, and I also acknowledge that there were several parts of the AFA (for instance, the portion that disallowed insurance companies to cancel or deny pre-existing conditions) but let's be brutally honest here: True, definitional "Insurance" is really "Gambling".....True, real life insurance, is taking a wager against the odds, that nothing bad will happen to your car, your home, your personal possessions, and in the case of health insurance, your body, by merely paying a small portion of your income against those odds. What many are clamoring for, is "Free Health Care:"; and there just isn't such an animal. Doctors go to school for extended grueling periods of time, in order to practice and want just compensation. Drug companies expend large sums of money for research and development for "Fun & Profit"; as do the medical machinery companies.....To think that there is some "Magic Fairy" who is going to cover the costs of these expenses, (like the federal government) is a pipe dream! On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 9:25 AM, 'jim' via Historical Pictorial <[email protected]> wrote: Keith: Even when it is a matter of life and death (and not emergencyroomphilia) the cost to a small company can be almost catastrophic when a covered patient requires expensive perpetual care. A surveying firm I had business with in the 1990s (maybe 10-12 people including the owner) had a key employee whose wife's immune system had been wrecked and she continued to survive only because of very expensive medicines for the long term. She was in her 40s then. Ultimately the difference in the insurance premiums was $100,000+ more each year than it would have been without her. it was burden the surveyor had to bear for years. There were employees who never got hired because of the drain on the company's income. Ultimately the fellow left but I can't help wondering if he didn't get pushed. I do know he went to work for a larger company and with COBRA bridging the time until he could get benefits at the new firm for his wife's pre-existing condition he was able to get through. But then he himself required very tricky heart surgery whose extent made it necessary to actually remove his heart from his chest to properly work on it and then sew it back in. Very expensive. Of course, the new firm's insurance paid for that, too. Are we entitled to health care? I dunno. Certainly the consensus in the West is that we have it is the moral responsibility of society to try. But at some point a a balance must be made. When one employee is bankrupting the ability of the small employer to provide insurance for all of his employees some difficult choices, sooner or later, must be made. Jim On Monday, December 1, 2014 6:35:23 AM UTC-5, KeithInTampa wrote: Good Morning Jim, The truth, despite some of the responses here in the Group, is that there are those of us, by our very nature, that will take advantage of those "socialist" benefits and health care is no exception. When I had my own company, and provided health care to all of our employees and their spouses: (Yes, back in the 1980s, this was something that was actually affordable and one of my corporate benefits!) we had those within the company who had: "Let's Go To The Emergency Room-itis" and would "create" illnesses and health conditions in order to utilize free health care provisions. Nothing has changed in that regard; and I would bet that there are even some of our members who would also take advantage of such a provision if they were to have "Free" or "Subsidized" health care. More importantly, the "Industrialized Nations" referred to above, have failed in providing health care to it's masses. As I have pointed out in previous posts, NONE OF THE SOCIALIZED MEDICINE PROGRAMS IN THESE NATIONS ARE SUCCESSFULLY WORKING! They are either fiscally unable to provide services, or unable to timely provide services, and usually a combination of both. To think that our cash strapped society should inherit something of this magnitude, with an inept federal government, and overseen by our IRS? I literally laugh out loud at such a suggestion, and I note humorously, those here in the Group who advocate such services! On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 12:39 AM, 'jim' via Historical Pictorial <[email protected]> wrote: On balance I agree with Keith. When I was 17 I had an attack of appendicitis. I told my mother I might have to have my appendix out and that it would cost. She didn't have the money and neither did anyone else in the immediate family. I knew all that from her face. I didn't feel deprived or resentful or denied. I felt fucked by life, is all. (Fortunately, it was not acute appendicitis and now, days from 70, I still got that vestigial but sometimes renegade structure in my lower right side). In 1962 we had different, lesser expectations. I still do. If the younger generation who support Medicare have to pay a million bucks to keep me alive a little while longer after some health crisis, well, I don't want it. It would be very wrong for me to expect it. That a room in a hospital now costs thousands a day, and many drugs come at hundreds of bucks per, is because there is insurance. Anyways, better to die at 63 with dignity than ignominiously at 83 after having sucked out exorbitant hospital and drug costs from the substance of the younger taxpayer, money that should have gone toward subsidized education for the grandchildren and bolstering our infrastructure so the Brooklyn Bridge doesn't fall down. The recent election was deeply-motivated decision for the Republicans thatis likely to carry through for the foreseeable future. As a troubled Democrat I am vexed. As Jim Smith, I understand. On Sunday, November 30, 2014 11:24:01 PM UTC-5, KeithInTampa wrote: Nice try Claude, but no cigar. As I have pointed, out, for almost a century, our Nation has provided for those indigent Americans with adequate health care. You do realize that our Nation is broke? That we're 17 Trillion dollars overdrawn? I think it's "callous" that a select few Americans would have this belief, or maybe better said, this "right to expectation" that they should have some sort of free unrestricted health provision, at no cost or sacrifice.....No personal responsibility. On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 10:09 PM, netman extraordinaire <[email protected]> wrote: The assumption being that the ill person did something wrong and deserve what they get. We don't have a misunderstanding that perfectly healthy living people get sick and die through no fault of their own, correct? We're not talking about someone buying a new car without enough cash here folks. How unbelievably callous. On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 5:18 PM, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> wrote: Thanks to the 103rd Republican Congress, there are laws that prohibit ANY medical service establishment from turning down emergency health care, to ANYONE, including illegal aliens, poor folks, or folks who don't have health insurance. The other great thing about the United States, is that for almost a century, we have had health care services for those who are poor, indigent, and unable to pay for services. Yes, we disagree that health care is some type of a right. It's not, and should not be. You have a right to smoke, eat gluttonous high caloric foods, sugars, and anything else that you can or may choose to consume. It should not be the American public's burden/cost to heal that individual after one has spent the majority of his life doing all he can do to kill himself. That cost should be left to the individual. On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 7:08 PM, Alic Simard <[email protected]> wrote: Keith: I feel that poverty should not be a deterrent to the healthiest life possible. I agree that asking the government to organize health care can be no worse than a badger stirring the stew. On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 6:48 PM, 'Mustang' via Historical Pictorial <[email protected]> wrote: Millions of people lost the insurance they had, wanted, and could afford. I'll make a wild guess that 80% of those seven to ten million who signed up are the very ones who already had coverage until it was ripped away with blatant lies. People don't have a "right" to subsidized anything. People do have the right, and an obligation, to help themselves, to get an education and get a J-O-B. I don't have any moral obligation turn over any portion of my earnings to pay their bills, provide birth control, or supply a cellphone. There are organizations available for charity. Churches, synagogues, rescue missions, St. Jude's, City of Hope, free clinics, etc., are places to ask for help when in temporary need, not demand perpetual handouts. Medi-Cal, Medicaid, etc. have been available for people who need health care. Many of the people applying for Obamacare have been shifted to those places. They were already eligible. They didn't bother to look into it. They didn't want to pay for it. Tough. Mustang ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: tim <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 12:49 PM Subject: [Historical Pictorial] Re: Comment not needed Ludicrous, naive and misplaced as I may be with my ill-conceived notions, here's something to think about for all those who just hate "obamacare", (also I'll submit that the US government has done very well at paying all it's bureaucrats and keeping them on for life without the need of actually working and with a very lucrative benefits package and retirement, that's just for starters). 6) The ACA has Added Years to the Life of Medicare, Insured 7 Million People so Far, and Precipitated the Lowest Rise in Healthcare Costs Since 1960 Right now, somewhere between 7 and 10 million Americans who didn’t have health insurance before have it now. Rates haven’t gone up across the board as predicted either, primarily because healthcare costs are now _rising slower_ (http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/healthcostreport_final_noembargo_v2.pdf) than they have at any point since 1960. Indeed — seems strange things happen when doctors and hospitals get paid for their services, instead of passing the cost of non-payers along to others. And since more people now have insurance, they’ve got more paying customers than ever before. That’s had a decided impact on not just the cost of insurance, but the lifespan of a program that was projected to die in 2016: Medicare. Before the ACA, Medicare was on the verge of running out of money, and major cuts were on the horizon. But because the increase in healthcare costs have dropped, Medicare is now projected to live till at least 2030 with no cuts or changes whatsoever. Which means you have to ask… Were the Conservatives who fought this ignorant, incompetent or simply lying? Perhaps to themselves, if nothing else. http://aattp.org/here-are-7-facts-about-obamas-presidency-that-conservatives -dont-want-you-to-know/ On Sunday, November 30, 2014 7:33:14 AM UTC-6, taillan wrote: -- -- Thanks for participating in the Google Group, Historical Pictorial, which is the premiere men's forum on the web; focusing on historical media, and discussions of contemporary issues as well as our chronicled past! For options and help, please visit the group at: http://groups.google.com/group/Historical-Pictoral --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Historical Pictorial" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. 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