I have never personally even held a gun
---
I can tell.
our first right is the right of self defense.
guns are necessary to keep the violent in check and for hunting.

On Tuesday, December 22, 2015 at 12:41:24 AM UTC-6, pluto of brougham wrote:
>
> Indeed I do, thank you for your apology, I was rather sorry for the above 
> as I tend to agree with your posts just about all of the time, however, to 
> the matter in hand: I have never personally even held a gun, and come from 
> a culture where guns are held under a licence (and you need very good 
> reason for this) by the police and, unfortunately, the criminal element. I 
> am very aware the arguments put up by the NRA and various gun lobbies, but, 
> as a country that has gun control (Aust.) as have our sister countries, 
> Canada, UK, NZ and others, I assure you, it's a very much safer society we 
> live in.
>
> As far as I recall, the right for you to bear arms goes back to the 
> American revolution, and that the people had the right to defend themselves 
> if the government overstepped it's bounds, however, again if I remember 
> correctly, during the depression when workers marched in protest about the 
> conditions they were living under, the government called out the army and I 
> believe fired upon them, if any of them did carry firearms seemed to have 
> been pointless, so you see, this argument falls flat.
>
> I recognise the unfortunate fact that some areas in the US are so 
> dangerous that it requires some protection, luckily whenever I visited that 
> beautiful land I never encountered any, but maintain that if guns were to 
> be controlled, there would be far far less crimes committed.
>
> If I can give you an example, I have had some very heated exchanges with 
> another member of this group, now, perhaps at times I do use somewhat 
> intemperate language, however, I only use words, I truly believe, that had 
> we carried that argument face to face, he may well have unsheathed his 
> firearm, sometimes it can be an automatic reaction, much as you might 
> regret it later.
>
> On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 5:04 PM, plainolamerican <[email protected] 
> <javascript:>> wrote:
>
>> . I suppose at the end of the day you are to be pitied your illogical 
>> answer.
>> ---
>> ok ... I apologize.
>> when I hear people recommend taking gun privies away I over react.
>> do you have an issue with guns you would like to discuss?
>>
>>
>> On Monday, December 21, 2015 at 10:54:10 PM UTC-6, pluto of brougham 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> How eloquently you prove my point boy, you have not the 
>>> skill/articulation/education to make a valid point why you need them, so 
>>> your pathetic response is to try to silence anyone who disagrees. I suppose 
>>> at the end of the day you are to be pitied your illogical answer.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 2:13 PM, plainolamerican <[email protected]> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> what's stfu stand for
>>>> ---
>>>> guns are necessary ... so shut the fuck up.
>>>>
>>>> On Monday, December 21, 2015 at 6:53:16 PM UTC-6, pluto of brougham 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> say again, what's stfu stand for
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 11:48 AM, plainolamerican <
>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "And on the sixth day thou shalt manufacture firearms for the 
>>>>>> murderous and the feeble minded"
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> you sound like a religious myth believer.
>>>>>> guns are necessary ... those who don't understand should stfu.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Monday, December 21, 2015 at 6:16:40 PM UTC-6, pluto of brougham 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "And on the sixth day thou shalt manufacture firearms for the 
>>>>>>> murderous and the feeble minded"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 10:49 AM, plainolamerican <
>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why Beretta is moving its gun factory to Tennessee
>>>>>>>> by Aaron Smith   @AaronSmithCNN 
>>>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=AaronSmithCNN>
>>>>>>>> [image: beretta factory]Beretta is moving its Maryland factory 
>>>>>>>> (pictured here) to Tennessee because of Maryland's tough new gun laws.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <http://www.facebook.com/share.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmoney.cnn.com%2F2015%2F12%2F17%2Fnews%2Fcompanies%2Fberetta-guns-factory-tennessee-maryland%2Findex.html&title=Why%20Beretta%20is%20moving%20its%20gun%20factory%20to%20Tennessee>
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?text=Why%20Beretta%20is%20moving%20its%20gun%20factory%20to%20Tennessee&via=CNNMoney&related=CNNMoney%3ABreaking%20news%20and%20in-depth%20looks%20at%20the%20most%20important%20business%20stories%20of%20the%20day.&url=http://cnnmon.ie/1NUTjZT>
>>>>>>>> Beretta USA says Maryland's tough new gun laws are the reason it's 
>>>>>>>> moving its factory to gun-friendly Tennessee.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The American subsidiary of the 500-year-old Italian company has had 
>>>>>>>> a factory in Accokeek, Maryland since the 1970s. The company has 
>>>>>>>> manufactured the M9, the U.S. Army's standard-issue sidearm, since 
>>>>>>>> 1987 at 
>>>>>>>> that factory, which is about 20 miles south of Washington, D.C.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Beretta is relocating the factory to Gallatin, Tenn., in early 
>>>>>>>> 2016, because it's worried that Maryland gun laws could force it out 
>>>>>>>> of the 
>>>>>>>> state.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maryland is one of several states that have passed new gun laws to 
>>>>>>>> restrict military-style semiautomatic rifles 
>>>>>>>> <http://money.cnn.com/2015/12/04/news/companies/san-bernardino-killings-ar15/?iid=EL>
>>>>>>>>  and 
>>>>>>>> high capacity magazines since the mass shooting in Newtown, 
>>>>>>>> Connecticut 
>>>>>>>> <http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/14/politics/obama-newtown-anniversary/?iid=EL>,
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> three years ago. These weapons have been used in subsequent mass 
>>>>>>>> shootings, 
>>>>>>>> including the recent one in San Bernardino 
>>>>>>>> <http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/14/us/san-bernardino-shooting/?iid=EL>.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The state's Firearm Safety Act of 2013, championed by former 
>>>>>>>> Maryland governor and Democratic presidential candidate Martin 
>>>>>>>> O'Malley, 
>>>>>>>> targets assault weapons, banning 45 guns and limiting magazine 
>>>>>>>> capacity to 
>>>>>>>> 10 rounds.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Maryland law means that Beretta's M9 semiautomatic pistol 
>>>>>>>> <http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/22/news/beretta-m9-lethal-weapon/index.html?iid=EL>,
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> which holds 15 rounds, is now illegal in the state, said Beretta USA's 
>>>>>>>> lead 
>>>>>>>> lawyer, Jeff Reh. He said the ban also applies to Beretta's pistol 
>>>>>>>> grip 
>>>>>>>> shotguns, and also to the semiautomatic rifles 
>>>>>>>> <http://money.cnn.com/2014/04/09/news/companies/assault-weapon-sales/?iid=EL>
>>>>>>>>  like 
>>>>>>>> the ARX 100 <http://www.beretta.com/en-us/arx-100/>.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Reh said that the company lobbied successfully to change the law so 
>>>>>>>> that Beretta could continue to make, import and warehouse these guns 
>>>>>>>> in 
>>>>>>>> Maryland, even though private citizens can't own them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Related: Remington shifts jobs from N.Y. to Alabama 
>>>>>>>> <http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/20/news/companies/remington-jobs/?iid=EL>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Still, Reh said, the company realized that "with the stroke of a 
>>>>>>>> pen our ability to manufacture products for the armed forces, or 
>>>>>>>> police, or 
>>>>>>>> even civilians, could be blocked."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But the city of Gallatin, Tennessee, welcomed Beratta's $45 million 
>>>>>>>> gun factory with open arms and $4 million in incentives. That includes 
>>>>>>>> 100 
>>>>>>>> acres of land worth $1.75 million and a 10-year tax abatement worth 
>>>>>>>> about 
>>>>>>>> $2.2 million, according to James Fenton, Gallatin's economic 
>>>>>>>> development 
>>>>>>>> director.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "It was the best financial package that we were offered," said Reh.
>>>>>>>> [image: three berettas]Beretta's M9 handguns are restricted in 
>>>>>>>> Maryland because the magazines can hold more than 10 rounds. So the 
>>>>>>>> company 
>>>>>>>> moved production to Tennessee.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Gallatin is a city of more than 30,000 people some 20 miles out of 
>>>>>>>> Nashville, which puts it close to an international airport, a 
>>>>>>>> necessity for 
>>>>>>>> the gunmaker.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "We will see an immediate increase in real and personal property 
>>>>>>>> taxes," said Fenton. "We have seen a jump in local sales tax during 
>>>>>>>> the 
>>>>>>>> first phase of construction. Additionally, there continues to be 
>>>>>>>> robust 
>>>>>>>> interest in the area because of the [Beretta] announcement."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Fenton expects the factory to eventually employ 300 people, most of 
>>>>>>>> them hired locally. Beretta's sales, marketing, legal and customer 
>>>>>>>> service 
>>>>>>>> staff will stay in Maryland.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Beretta's move south started when the company's patriarch, Ugo 
>>>>>>>> Gussalli Beretta, asked Reh to identify "the most consistently 
>>>>>>>> pro-Second 
>>>>>>>> Amendment states in the country."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "He told me, 'If we're going to build a factory somewhere, I want 
>>>>>>>> to put it in a state where I don't have to worry about it, or my sons 
>>>>>>>> don't 
>>>>>>>> have to worry about it, or even my grandkids,'" said Reh. "So he's 
>>>>>>>> taking a 
>>>>>>>> 100-year view of the company."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This will be the third factory that Beretta has built since the 
>>>>>>>> company 
>>>>>>>> started in the early 1500s 
>>>>>>>> <http://www.beretta.com/en-us/world-of-beretta/since-1526/>.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Reh said that he personally visited 80 potential factory locations 
>>>>>>>> in Georgia, Texas, the Carolinas, Kentucky and also Virginia, which he 
>>>>>>>> liked because of its proximity to Maryland. But he abandoned Virginia 
>>>>>>>> because Governor Terry McAuliffe, a Democrat, ran for office on a gun 
>>>>>>>> control platform.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Gallatin's James Fenton said that gun control laws in Virginia and 
>>>>>>>> Maryland are a boon for Tennessee.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "I would like to mention that the [former] governor of Maryland is 
>>>>>>>> my best friend for passing that legislation," he said, "even though 
>>>>>>>> we've 
>>>>>>>> never met."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Related: My 'Lethal Weapon' moment with Beretta's new gun 
>>>>>>>> <http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/22/news/beretta-m9-lethal-weapon/index.html?iid=EL>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Related: Background checks on track for a record year 
>>>>>>>> <http://money.cnn.com/2015/12/03/news/san-bernardino-fbi-background-checks/index.html?iid=EL>
>>>>>>>> CNNMoney (New York)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Monday, December 21, 2015 at 5:47:17 PM UTC-6, plainolamerican 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> School District in Tennessee Arms TeachersJustin Holcomb  
>>>>>>>>> <http://townhall.com/tipsheet/justinholcomb/>| Dec 21, 2015
>>>>>>>>> [image: Justin Holcomb] 
>>>>>>>>> <http://townhall.com/tipsheet/justinholcomb/>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    - Share on Facebook*6*
>>>>>>>>>    - 
>>>>>>>>>    - 6 SHARES
>>>>>>>>>    
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    - 
>>>>>>>>>    - 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>>>>>>>> For options & help see 
>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ 
>>>>>>>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. 
>>>>>>>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --- 
>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>>>>>>> Groups "PoliticalForum" group.
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected].
>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>>>>>> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ 
>>>>>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. 
>>>>>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- 
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>>>>> Groups "PoliticalForum" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
>>>>>> send an email to [email protected].
>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>>>> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>>>>  
>>>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ 
>>>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. 
>>>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>>>>
>>>> --- 
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>>> Groups "PoliticalForum" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>>> an email to [email protected].
>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>> -- 
>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>>  
>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ 
>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. 
>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>>
>> --- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "PoliticalForum" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to [email protected] <javascript:>.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>

-- 
-- 
Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/  
* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. 
* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"PoliticalForum" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to [email protected].
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Reply via email to