---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: *Charles D. Frohman* <[email protected]>
Date: Tuesday, February 23, 2016
Subject: 8pm Eastern Tonight: Trump and Hillary are Non-Choices, so Meet
the THIRD choice
To: Charles Frohman <[email protected]>


Conservatives don't like Trump, and liberals don't like Hillary.

Are you going to sit on the fence and allow another election with lousy
choices?  Click here
<https://www.facebook.com/govgaryjohnson/photos/a.175035499363.104403.165297924363/10152928815134364/?type=3&theater>
to
tune in tonight at 8 Eastern to ask questions of the "sanest man running
<http://www.gq.com/story/gary-johnson-republican-candidate-debate-interview>
".

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to the top of the polls once voters saw him in the debates with Bush and
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This governor - also a successful businessman who hired over a thousand
employees - vetoed more bills than all 49 of the other governors combined.
He cuts taxes while rebuilding the roads.  He wants a strong defense
against terrorism without sacrificing privacy or a balanced budget.

Most voters are "fiscally responsible yet socially tolerant", just like the
third choice for the presidency who announced his candidacy last month on Neil
Cavuto's Fox show
<http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/4688066622001/fmr-gov-gary-johnson-im-running-for-president-/#sp=show-clips>
.

Click here
<https://www.facebook.com/govgaryjohnson/photos/a.175035499363.104403.165297924363/10152928815134364/?type=3&theater>
to
get to know the candidate tonight.

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<https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=165297924363&fref=ts>.

Charles D. Frohman
My Facebook link <https://www.facebook.com/Cfroh>


On Tuesday, February 23, 2016, plainolamerican <[email protected]>
wrote:

> The government will be getting out of the marriage business soon
> though....Bank on that!
> ---
> speculation noted.
> the government will never give up an opportunity to collect a fee.
>
>
> On Tuesday, February 23, 2016 at 12:58:01 PM UTC-6, KeithInTampa wrote:
>>
>> Oh I think it will.  And I agree with you, that if you can find a Church
>> to bless your homosexual marriage, then more power to you!
>>
>> The government will be getting out of the marriage business soon
>> though....Bank on that!
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 12:32 PM, Brian Bednarek <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> We've been round and round on this before ... I have always said all
>> unions should be civil and if your religion blesses it, then fine, but that
>> should not be recognized by the government. There are plenty of Christians
>> that accept same sex marriage.
>>
>> You need to get over the word marriage, the genie is out of the bottle
>> and won't go back in on that one!!!
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 11:58 AM, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Then call it what it is!  A "Civil Union" and everyone could live happily
>> ever after!  But no.....The Militant Gay Agenda demanded that the term
>> "Marriage" be redefined!
>>
>> Therein lies the problem Brine!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Brian Bednarek <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Here is where we will forever disagree, it is NOT additional, it is
>> equal!!!
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 11:28 AM, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> There's no persecution of Gays Plain Ol'.  Right now, you have
>> "Additional Rights" and this is fundamentally wrong.  Because of your
>> sexuality, you have now claimed that you're entitled to: (1) Redefine the
>> term "Marriage"; and (2)  Based on who you choose to crawl in the sack
>> with, "marry" a person outside of the confines of what a marriage is.
>>
>> This is wrong, and it will be addressed soon.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 8:40 AM, plainolamerican <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I do disagree with Plaino though as far as Sir Bernard is concerned,
>> sounds like a very decent human being to me.
>> ---
>> he sounds like a fucking You Norker barking like a dog to me ... and so
>> does Trump.
>> Do you really want either of these men representing America?
>>
>> On Monday, February 22, 2016 at 7:55:24 PM UTC-6, pluto of brougham wrote:
>>
>> the U.S. Constitution clearly stated in Article VI
>> that federal elective and appointed officials “shall be bound by Oath or
>> Affirmation, to support this Constitution, but no religious Test shall
>> ever
>> be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the
>> United States.”
>>
>> Full marks to Plaino for that interesting essay, surely the above should
>> disqualify that woman who refused gay marriage licences from holding
>> a govt. post, as well as the judges on the high court bench to put aside
>> their religious beliefs in considering different cases, however, I
>> recognise that very few of us can be so totally dispassionate, unless we're
>> Vulcans of course.
>>
>> I do disagree with Plaino though as far as Sir Bernard is concerned,
>> sounds like a very decent human being to me.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 6:01 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> [email protected]
>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=digest&utm_medium=email#!forum/politicalforum/topics>
>>  Google
>> Groups
>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=digest&utm_medium=email/#!overview>
>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=digest&utm_medium=email/#!overview>
>> Topic digest
>> View all topics
>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=digest&utm_medium=email#!forum/politicalforum/topics>
>>
>>    - [grendelreport] Colonials
>>    
>> <#-1658196596_CAN2xbf_GOoFpZKicgfTZgz1cUivQCAxrTe3gnSsqre1HZCy3_A@mail.gmail.com_-2020770662_-928372916_1412666292_985604885_872959532_CAJrTEUC=WfTrmJyWJcxDgJRfoadydMDNOnTC0JF1U+G7u_ciBA@mail.gmail.com_-1150173010_group_thread_0>
>>    - 5 Updates
>>    - [grendelreport] What If Iran's Guardian Council Managed U.S.
>>    Elections?
>>    
>> <#-1658196596_CAN2xbf_GOoFpZKicgfTZgz1cUivQCAxrTe3gnSsqre1HZCy3_A@mail.gmail.com_-2020770662_-928372916_1412666292_985604885_872959532_CAJrTEUC=WfTrmJyWJcxDgJRfoadydMDNOnTC0JF1U+G7u_ciBA@mail.gmail.com_-1150173010_group_thread_1>
>>    - 6 Updates
>>    - [grendelreport] Who Is Bernie Sanders?
>>    
>> <#-1658196596_CAN2xbf_GOoFpZKicgfTZgz1cUivQCAxrTe3gnSsqre1HZCy3_A@mail.gmail.com_-2020770662_-928372916_1412666292_985604885_872959532_CAJrTEUC=WfTrmJyWJcxDgJRfoadydMDNOnTC0JF1U+G7u_ciBA@mail.gmail.com_-1150173010_group_thread_2>
>>    - 4 Updates
>>    - [grendelreport] NY SHOOTOUT: Devout Muslim AMBUSHES, FIRES at 8
>>    NYPD Cops, Two OFFICERS Injured
>>    
>> <#-1658196596_CAN2xbf_GOoFpZKicgfTZgz1cUivQCAxrTe3gnSsqre1HZCy3_A@mail.gmail.com_-2020770662_-928372916_1412666292_985604885_872959532_CAJrTEUC=WfTrmJyWJcxDgJRfoadydMDNOnTC0JF1U+G7u_ciBA@mail.gmail.com_-1150173010_group_thread_3>
>>    - 2 Updates
>>    - [grendelreport] Cops are asking Ancestry.com and 23andMe for their
>>    customers' DNA
>>    
>> <#-1658196596_CAN2xbf_GOoFpZKicgfTZgz1cUivQCAxrTe3gnSsqre1HZCy3_A@mail.gmail.com_-2020770662_-928372916_1412666292_985604885_872959532_CAJrTEUC=WfTrmJyWJcxDgJRfoadydMDNOnTC0JF1U+G7u_ciBA@mail.gmail.com_-1150173010_group_thread_4>
>>    - 2 Updates
>>    - [New post] If you’ve never seen Islamic ‘halal’ slaughter, force
>>    yourself to watch this, then share it with those who haven’t
>>    
>> <#-1658196596_CAN2xbf_GOoFpZKicgfTZgz1cUivQCAxrTe3gnSsqre1HZCy3_A@mail.gmail.com_-2020770662_-928372916_1412666292_985604885_872959532_CAJrTEUC=WfTrmJyWJcxDgJRfoadydMDNOnTC0JF1U+G7u_ciBA@mail.gmail.com_-1150173010_group_thread_5>
>>    - 5 Updates
>>    - [grendelreport] Border Walls
>>    
>> <#-1658196596_CAN2xbf_GOoFpZKicgfTZgz1cUivQCAxrTe3gnSsqre1HZCy3_A@mail.gmail.com_-2020770662_-928372916_1412666292_985604885_872959532_CAJrTEUC=WfTrmJyWJcxDgJRfoadydMDNOnTC0JF1U+G7u_ciBA@mail.gmail.com_-1150173010_group_thread_6>
>>    - 1 Update
>>
>> [grendelreport] Colonials
>> <http://groups.google.com/group/politicalforum/t/bf451f2b69b8bc43?utm_source=digest&utm_medium=email>
>> plainolamerican <[email protected]>: Feb 22 09:49AM -0800
>>
>> but we do remember when they persecuted everyone with different religious
>> beliefs (or no beliefs at all).
>>
>> On Monday, February 22, 2016 at 10:41:28 AM UTC-6, Travis wrote:
>> Keith In Tampa <[email protected]>: Feb 22 01:21PM -0500
>>
>> I will probably regret asking this, but who is it that you are alleging
>> are, "They", and when did this allegedly happen?
>>
>> ​
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 12:49 PM, plainolamerican <[email protected]
>> plainolamerican <[email protected]>: Feb 22 10:30AM -0800
>>
>> America's True History of Religious ToleranceThe idea that the United
>> States has always been a bastion of religious freedom is reassuring—and
>> utterly at odds with the historical record.
>>
>>
>> In the storybook version most of us learned in school, the Pilgrims came
>> to
>> America aboard the *Mayflower* in search of religious freedom in 1620.
>> The
>> Puritans soon followed, for the same reason. Ever since these religious
>> dissidents arrived at their shining “city upon a hill,” as their governor
>> John Winthrop called it, millions from around the world have done the
>> same,
>> coming to an America where they found a welcome melting pot in which
>> everyone was free to practice his or her own faith.
>>
>> The problem is that this tidy narrative is an American myth. The real
>> story
>> of religion in America’s past is an often awkward, frequently
>> embarrassing
>> and occasionally bloody tale that most civics books and high-school texts
>> either paper over or shunt to the side. And much of the recent
>> conversation
>> about America’s ideal of religious freedom has paid lip service to this
>> comforting tableau.
>>
>>
>> From the earliest arrival of Europeans on America’s shores, religion has
>> often been a cudgel, used to discriminate, suppress and even kill the
>> foreign, the “heretic” and the “unbeliever”—including the “heathen”
>> natives
>> already here. Moreover, while it is true that the vast majority of
>> early-generation Americans were Christian, the pitched battles between
>> various Protestant sects and, more explosively, between Protestants and
>> Catholics, present an unavoidable contradiction to the widely held notion
>> that America is a “Christian nation.”
>>
>> First, a little overlooked history: the initial encounter between
>> Europeans
>> in the future United States came with the establishment of a Huguenot
>> (French Protestant) colony in 1564 at Fort Caroline (near modern
>> Jacksonville, Florida). More than half a century before the *Mayflower*
>> set
>> sail, French pilgrims had come to America in search of religious freedom.
>>
>> The Spanish had other ideas. In 1565, they established a forward
>> operating
>> base at St. Augustine and proceeded to wipe out the Fort Caroline colony.
>> The Spanish commander, Pedro Menéndez de Avilés, wrote to the Spanish
>> King
>> Philip II that he had “hanged all those we had found in [Fort Caroline]
>> because...they were scattering the odious Lutheran doctrine in these
>> Provinces.” When hundreds of survivors of a shipwrecked French fleet
>> washed
>> up on the beaches of Florida, they were put to the sword, beside a river
>> the Spanish called Matanzas (“slaughters”). In other words, the first
>> encounter between European Christians in America ended in a blood bath.
>>
>> The much-ballyhooed arrival of the Pilgrims and Puritans in New England
>> in
>> the early 1600s was indeed a response to persecution that these religious
>> dissenters had experienced in England. But the Puritan fathers of the
>> Massachusetts Bay Colony did not countenance tolerance of opposing
>> religious views. Their “city upon a hill” was a theocracy that brooked no
>> dissent, religious or political.
>>
>>
>> The most famous dissidents within the Puritan community, Roger Williams
>> and
>> Anne Hutchinson, were banished following disagreements over theology and
>> policy. From Puritan Boston’s earliest days, Catholics (“Papists”) were
>> anathema and were banned from the colonies, along with other
>> non-Puritans.
>> Four Quakers were hanged in Boston between 1659 and 1661 for persistently
>> returning to the city to stand up for their beliefs.
>>
>> Throughout the colonial era, Anglo-American antipathy toward
>> Catholics—especially French and Spanish Catholics—was pronounced and
>> often
>> reflected in the sermons of such famous clerics as Cotton Mather and in
>> statutes that discriminated against Catholics in matters of property and
>> voting. Anti-Catholic feelings even contributed to the revolutionary mood
>> in America after King George III extended an olive branch to French
>> Catholics in Canada with the Quebec Act of 1774, which recognized their
>> religion.
>>
>> When George Washington dispatched Benedict Arnold on a mission to court
>> French Canadians’ support for the American Revolution in 1775, he
>> cautioned
>> Arnold not to let their religion get in the way. “Prudence, policy and a
>> true Christian Spirit,” Washington advised, “will lead us to look with
>> compassion upon their errors, without insulting them.” (After Arnold
>> betrayed the American cause, he publicly cited America’s alliance with
>> Catholic France as one of his reasons for doing so.)
>>
>> In newly independent America, there was a crazy quilt of state laws
>> regarding religion. In Massachusetts, only Christians were allowed to
>> hold
>> public office, and Catholics were allowed to do so only after renouncing
>> papal authority. In 1777, New York State’s constitution banned Catholics
>> from public office (and would do so until 1806). In Maryland, Catholics
>> had
>> full civil rights, but Jews did not. Delaware required an oath affirming
>> belief in the Trinity. Several states, including Massachusetts and South
>> Carolina, had official, state-supported churches.
>>
>> In 1779, as Virginia’s governor, Thomas Jefferson had drafted a bill that
>> guaranteed legal equality for citizens of all religions—including those
>> of
>> no religion—in the state. It was around then that Jefferson famously
>> wrote,
>> “But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or
>> no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.” But Jefferson’s
>> plan
>> did not advance—until after Patrick (“Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death”)
>> Henry introduced a bill in 1784 calling for state support for “teachers
>> of
>> the Christian religion.”
>>
>> Future President James Madison stepped into the breach. In a carefully
>> argued essay titled “Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious
>> Assessments,” the soon-to-be father of the Constitution eloquently laid
>> out
>> reasons why the state had no business supporting Christian instruction.
>> Signed by some 2,000 Virginians, Madison’s argument became a fundamental
>> piece of American political philosophy, a ringing endorsement of the
>> secular state that “should be as familiar to students of American history
>> as the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution,” as Susan Jacoby
>> has written in *Freethinkers*, her excellent history of American
>> secularism.
>>
>> Among Madison’s 15 points was his declaration that “the Religion then of
>> every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every...man to
>> exercise it as these may dictate. This right is in its nature an
>> inalienable right.”
>>
>> Madison also made a point that any believer of any religion should
>> understand: that the government sanction of a religion was, in essence, a
>> threat to religion. “Who does not see,” he wrote, “that the same
>> authority
>> which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions,
>> may
>> establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in
>> exclusion of all other Sects?” Madison was writing from his memory of
>> Baptist ministers being arrested in his native Virginia.
>>
>> As a Christian, Madison also noted that Christianity had spread in the
>> face
>> of persecution from worldly powers, not with their help. Christianity, he
>> contended, “disavows a dependence on the powers of this world...for it is
>> known that this Religion both existed and flourished, not only without
>> the
>> support of human laws, but in spite of every opposition from them.”
>>
>> Recognizing the idea of America as a refuge for the protester or rebel,
>> Madison also argued that Henry’s proposal was “a departure from that
>> generous policy, which offering an Asylum to the persecuted and oppressed
>> of every Nation and Religion, promised a lustre to our country.”
>>
>> After long debate, Patrick Henry’s bill was defeated, with the opposition
>> outnumbering supporters 12 to 1. Instead, the Virginia legislature took
>> up
>> Jefferson’s plan for the separation of church and state. In 1786, the
>> Virginia Act for Establishing Religious Freedom, modified somewhat from
>> Jefferson’s original draft, became law. The act is one of three
>> accomplishments Jefferson included on his tombstone, along with writing
>> the
>> Declaration and founding the University of Virginia. (He omitted his
>> presidency of the United States.) After the bill was passed, Jefferson
>> proudly wrote that the law “meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its
>> protection, the Jew, the Gentile, the Christian and the Mahometan, the
>> Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.”
>>
>> Madison wanted Jefferson’s view to become the law of the land when he
>> went
>> to the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia in 1787. And as framed
>> in
>> Philadelphia that year, the U.S. Constitution clearly stated in Article
>> VI
>> that federal elective and appointed officials “shall be bound by Oath or
>> Affirmation, to support this Constitution, but no religious Test shall
>> ever
>> be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the
>> United States.”
>>
>> This passage—along with the facts that the Constitution does not mention
>> God or a deity (except for a pro forma “year of our Lord” date) and that
>> its very first amendment forbids Congress from making laws that would
>> infringe of the free exercise of religion—attests to the founders’
>> resolve
>> that America be a secular republic. The men who fought the Revolution may
>> have thanked Providence and attended church regularly—or not. But they
>> also
>> fought a war against a country in which the head of state was the head of
>> the church. Knowing well the history of religious warfare that led to
>> America’s settlement, they clearly understood both the dangers of that
>> system and of sectarian conflict.
>>
>> It was the recognition of that divisive past by the founders—notably
>> Washington, Jefferson, Adams and Madison—that secured America as a
>> secular
>> republic. As president, Washington wrote in 1790: “All possess alike
>> liberty of conscience and immunity of citizenship. ...For happily the
>> Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to
>> persecution no assistance requires only that they who live under its
>> protection should demean themselves as good citizens.”
>>
>> He was addressing the members of America’s oldest synagogue, the Touro
>> Synagogue in Newport, Rhode Island (where his letter is read aloud every
>> August). In closing, he wrote specifically to the Jews a phrase that
>> applies to Muslims as well: “May the children of the Stock of Abraham,
>> who
>> dwell in this land, continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the
>> other
>> inhabitants, while every one shall sit in safety under his own vine and
>> figtree, and there shall be none to make him afraid.”
>>
>> As for Adams and Jefferson, they would disagree vehemently over policy,
>> but
>> on the question of religious freedom they were united. “In their
>> seventies,” Jacoby writes, “with a friendship that had survived serious
>> political conflicts, Adams and Jefferson could look back with
>> satisfaction
>> on what they both considered their greatest achievement—their role in
>> establishing a secular government whose legislators would never be
>> required, or permitted, to rule on the legality of theological views.”
>>
>> Late in his life, James Madison wrote a letter summarizing his views:
>> “And
>> I have no doubt that every new example, will succeed, as every past one
>> has
>> done, in shewing that religion & Govt. will both exist in greater purity,
>> the less they are mixed together.”
>>
>> While some of America’s early leaders were models of virtuous tolerance,
>> American attitudes were slow to change. The anti-Catholicism of America’s
>> Calvinist past found new voice in the 19th century. The belief widely
>> held
>> and preached by some of the most prominent ministers in America was that
>> Catholics would, if permitted, turn America over to the pope.
>> Anti-Catholic
>> venom was part of the typical American school day, along with Bible
>> readings. In Massachusetts, a convent—coincidentally near the site of the
>> Bunker Hill Monument—was burned to the ground in 1834 by an anti-Catholic
>> mob incited by reports that young women were being abused in the convent
>> school. In Philadelphia, the City of Brotherly Love, anti-Catholic
>> sentiment, combined with the country’s anti-immigrant mood, fueled the
>> Bible Riots of 1844, in which houses were torched, two Catholic churches
>> were destroyed and at least 20 people were killed.
>>
>> At about the same time, Joseph Smith founded a new American religion—and
>> soon met with the wrath of the mainstream Protestant majority. In 1832, a
>> mob tarred and feathered him, marking the beginning of a long battle
>> between Christian America and Smith’s Mormonism. In October 1838, after a
>> series of conflicts over land and religious tension, Missouri Governor
>> Lilburn Boggs ordered that all Mormons be expelled from his state. Three
>> days later, rogue militiamen massacred 17 church members, including
>> children, at the Mormon settlement of Haun’s Mill. In 1844, a mob
>> murdered
>> Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum while they were jailed in Carthage,
>> Illinois. No one was ever convicted of the crime.
>>
>> Even as late as 1960, Catholic presidential candidate John F. Kennedy
>> felt
>> compelled to make a major speech declaring that his loyalty was to
>> America,
>> not the pope. (And as recently as the 2008 Republican primary campaign,
>> Mormon candidate Mitt Romney felt compelled to address the suspicions
>> still
>> directed toward the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.) Of
>> course, America’s anti-Semitism was practiced institutionally as well as
>> socially for decades. With the great threat of “godless” Communism
>> looming
>> in the 1950s, the country’s fear of atheism also reached new heights.
>>
>> America can still be, as Madison perceived the nation in 1785, “an Asylum
>> to the persecuted and oppressed of every Nation and Religion.” But
>> recognizing that deep religious discord has been part of America’s social
>> DNA is a healthy and necessary step. When we acknowledge that dark past,
>> perhaps the nation will return to that “promised...lustre” of which
>> Madison
>> so grandiloquently wrote.
>>
>> *Kenneth C. Davis* is the author of *Don’t Know Much About History* and
>> *A
>> Nation Rising*, among other books.
>>
>>
>>
>> Read more:
>>
>> http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/americas-true-history-of-religious-tolerance-61312684/#70lZu2DqhQhfYm66.99
>> Give the gift of Smithsonian magazine for only $12! http://bit.ly/1cGUiGv
>> Follow us: @SmithsonianMag on Twitter
>>
>> On Monday, February 22, 2016 at 12:21:51 PM UTC-6, KeithInTampa wrote:
>> Keith In Tampa <[email protected]>: Feb 22 01:42PM -0500
>>
>> So your little abridged historical story pretty much buttresses what I was
>> thinking: In general, we are a tolerant accepting culture founded upon
>> Christian principles and tenets, and accepting of all who want to be a
>> part
>> and parcel of this society.
>>
>> You should probably read your little abridged historical story, it would
>> be
>> a good thing.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 1:30 PM, plainolamerican <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> plainolamerican <[email protected]>: Feb 22 10:57AM -0800
>>
>> So your little abridged historical story pretty much buttresses what I
>> was
>> thinking: In general, we are a tolerant accepting culture founded upon
>> Christian principles and tenets, and accepting of all who want to be a
>> part
>> and parcel of this society.
>> ---
>> history says otherwise ... can't you read, lawyerboy?
>> Jefferson and Madison put religious myth believing asshole like you in
>> their place.
>> take your religious persecution to israel or iran where it will be
>> appreciated.
>>
>> On Monday, February 22, 2016 at 12:42:44 PM UTC-6, KeithInTampa wrote:
>> Back to top
>> <#-1658196596_CAN2xbf_GOoFpZKicgfTZgz1cUivQCAxrTe3gnSsqre1HZCy3_A@mail.gmail.com_-2020770662_-928372916_1412666292_985604885_872959532_CAJrTEUC=WfTrmJyWJcxDgJRfoadydMDNOnTC0JF1U+G7u_ciBA@mail.gmail.com_-1150173010_digest_top>
>> [grendelreport] What If Iran's Guardian Council Managed U.S. Elections?
>> <http://groups.google.com/group/politicalforum/t/42cd656023cd9bf2?utm_source=digest&utm_medium=email>
>> Keith In Tampa <[email protected]>: Feb 22 12:21PM -0500
>>
>> Most Progressives like Plain Ol" conveniently "Forget" the USSR's
>> involvement in the region, and what was the causation of the United States
>> involvement.
>>
>> Not that Plain Ol's post has anything remotely to do with the initial
>> post,
>> but it's "*Typical*":
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-by-era/age-reagan/essays/iran-and-united-states-cold-war
>>
>> Both of these circumstances—Iran’s location between the USSR and the
>> Persian Gulf, and the presence of major oil reserves—guaranteed the
>> country’s importance during the Cold War. In addition, a third factor came
>> into play: the emergence, even before the end of World War II, of the
>> global military and ideological competition between the United States and
>> the Soviet Union. Fear of losing influence in a vital part of the world to
>> Soviet-led Communism motivated much of American foreign policy for the
>> next
>> several decades. American sentiment about competition and democracy was
>> spelled out, sometimes in almost Biblical terms, in conceptual documents
>> like NSC-68 and in numerous policy papers over the years.
>>
>> In two key incidents in Iran from the post-war period these precepts were
>> plainly evident, and produced consequences for the United States that were
>> in some ways utterly unanticipated. At other moments later in the Cold
>> War,
>> described further below, Washington’s fixation on the Soviet threat left
>> it
>> unprepared to deal with crises of local origin that were equally
>> significant for America’s standing in the region.
>>
>> The first of these earlier episodes unfolded at the end of the Second
>> World
>> War when the USSR threatened to abrogate its agreement with Britain and
>> Iran to remove its large troop presence from Iran’s northern province of
>> Azerbaijan within six months of the cessation of hostilities. Anxious to
>> gain an oil concession that would balance Britain’s privileged access in
>> the south of the country, as well as to create a buffer zone in a
>> vulnerable border region, Joseph Stalin planned to solidify Soviet
>> influence in the southern Caucasus region—perhaps even to annex part of
>> Azerbaijan province, according to Soviet archival records—but met
>> surprising resistance from President Harry Truman, who gave a range of
>> support to the young Shah of Iran, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi. Stalin
>> ultimately
>> decided to withdraw from the country in late 1946. The actions of the
>> United States were seen as a sign of genuine respect for the rights of
>> sovereign states—highly unusual for a major power—and made a powerful
>> impression on the Iranian people. To this day, the Azerbaijan crisis
>> accounts for some of the positive views many still have of the United
>> States.
>>
>> Less than a decade later, however, a second major incident dramatically
>> changed many Iranians’ opinion of the United States. In 1951, Iran’s
>> recently elected prime minister, Mohammed Mosaddeq, nationalized the
>> country’s petroleum industry, long the domain of the British-dominated
>> Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (AIOC). The move pitted the two governments
>> against each other in a bitter political fight, leaving the United States
>> once again to play the intermediary. But while the Truman administration
>> had tried to work with both sides, President Dwight Eisenhower and his
>> advisers quickly concluded that Mosaddeq represented the problem rather
>> than the solution to the crisis. Based strictly on Cold War calculations,
>> Eisenhower authorized a preemptive covert operation to oust Mosaddeq
>> before
>> Moscow might have an opportunity to do so. The coup in August 1953 was
>> carried out at US and British instigation but relied on a variety of
>> Iranian groups and individuals for its eventual success.
>>
>> The overthrow achieved the immediate objective of restoring to the throne
>> the Shah, who had fled the country during the turmoil, and replacing
>> Mosaddeq with a more amenable figure. For the next twenty-five years,
>> Mohammad Reza Shah remained in power and made significant contributions to
>> the interests of his superpower patron. But even though the coup had had
>> the support of significant segments of Iranian society at the time, it
>> came
>> to be seen by many Iranians as a sea change in American conduct—from
>> munificent protector of smaller countries to archetypal great power
>> pursuing its own interests regardless of the wishes of local populations.
>> This view of the United States gained currency inside Iran over the course
>> of the Shah’s reign as he proceeded to exercise more and more arbitrary
>> and
>> dictatorial power at the expense of his subjects with little visible
>> effort
>> at restraint from Washington. In fact, Presidents Eisenhower, Kennedy, and
>> Johnson did press the Shah repeatedly to enact reforms, but that strategy
>> effectively ended with the assertion of the Nixon Doctrine in 1969.
>> Reflecting the heavy strain on American military resources caused by the
>> Vietnam War, the new doctrine relied on regional powers to act as the
>> first
>> line of defense against potential Soviet expansionism. For the next
>> several
>> years, the Shah not only gained access to sophisticated American weaponry
>> he had long coveted, but also obtained tacit White House permission to
>> forgo any serious effort at reform.
>>
>> By the 1970s, conditions inside Iran that were purely local in origin—with
>> no connection to the Cold War—had begun to emerge that the United States
>> was ill-equipped to address. Internal resentment against the Shah’s
>> political and economic policies was building to a peak (and extending to
>> his US sponsors), but the depth of the problem escaped the notice of
>> American decision-makers. Led by Ayatollah Khomeini, a fierce public
>> critic
>> of Iran’s reliance on American backing who had been exiled for years for
>> his views, Iran’s growing anti-Shah sentiments burst into open revolution
>> in 1978–1979. After Khomeini’s triumphant return to Iran in early 1979 it
>> was only a matter of months before the revolution gelled in the form of a
>> theocratic state, not surprisingly characterized by significant
>> anti-American overtones.
>>
>> In the context of the Cold War, the revolution appeared to many Americans
>> to signify the “loss” of Iran to Soviet influence, a loss that was
>> magnified by the USSR’s invasion of Afghanistan in December 1979. In fact,
>> Moscow was never able t
>>
>> ...
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