Very well said!!! On Jul 10, 2016 9:55 AM, "'Perplexed' via PoliticalForum" < [email protected]> wrote:
> > NAFTA/CAFTA and TPP should it be ratified are another redistribution > mechanism to level living standards and merge national economies. > --------- > Everything this country has done is to level living standards - which > means to reduce ours in the US and make it more on par with nations like > China and India. Only most of us don't want to live in a country where raw > sewage runs along a ditch in front of one's home (India) or where the air > is so thick with pollution you can't even see 100 yards in front of you. > > The whole global warming bs is also nothing more than a mechanism to take > from the richer countries and give to the poor. Anyone who ever bothered > reading that Copenhagen treaty knows that, or is either willfully ignorant > or intentionally dishonest. It spelled out that the richer countries will > pay for "dignity", "environmental justice", and "social justice" of the > poorer countries. The US was expected to pay massive amounts of money into > a global fund to be distributed to poorer nations the world over. > > I find it interesting that the same so-called "experts" attacking Trump's > plan to level the playing field on trade are the ones who have told > Americans for years to stop complaining about illegals taking our jobs. > They've told us that on net, illegals are good for our economy, and there > is no bigger lie ever told. They cost not only jobs for millions of > Americans - but also hundreds of billions annually to BOTH in healthcare > and education provided to illegals. Both democrats and republicans have > been telling this lie for decades. But more and more people now see that > it's all been to benefit multinational companies and other businesses here > TO THE DETRIMENT of the American workers who are left without jobs. > > The same is true of many Americans who see these same dishonest > republicans and democrats who continue to support and defend illegal > immigration as being the ones expressing horror and dismay at the prospect > of making America dependent on America for its goods and services again. > Personally I think the evidence is in on trade - it's overrated in its > ability to lift the standard of living for the vast majority of Americans. > You can't keep shipping all of the nation's jobs overseas for decades and > say, "but it's good for you because you can buy cheap shit from China" or > "televisions cost $200 less than they'd cost if made here". And the morons > saying it don't seem to grasp that most Americans struggle to buy even > cheap shit from China when we don't make anything here and our wages don't > grow in 3 decades. > > IMO we've tried the globalist vision and it failed. PERIOD. It's time to > try something different - even if that means a temporary period of pain and > recession. America can freely trade with countries that have similar > standards of living (UK, Canada) so we aren't competing with workers who > make $2/day - THAT is what has to end. We've focused on what is good for > other countries and for a handful of extremely wealthy and successful > "American" companies who make nothing here for FAR too long. They can > either agree to move some of their jobs back here or lose the market of 340 > million Americans - it's that simple. > > But along with that, we MUST end the driving factors that make doing > business in America so much more expensive. That includes Obamacare and a > host of other massive regulatory bs that seems never-ending, and also > institute a "loser pays" legal system to stamp out the endless abuse of our > legal system by blood-sucking democrats with licenses to practice law. Only > then might we approach that level playing field that would someday result > in free trade with more countries. > > I grew up in the Industrial Midwest. One entire side of my family worked > in the steel industry. So I've seen firsthand what globalization did to > their lives and the town in which they lived 30 years ago. Since then we've > seen it happen to cities all over America. Some have been simultaneously > over-ridden with an influx of illegal labor, so those who lost their jobs > in the steel industry can't even get jobs in construction or hospitality - > as they have been filled with illegal labor. > > Just fuck that. People know that "free trade" has been anything BUT free > to Americans. And people are sick and tired of a ruling class that > continues to say that they just aren't sophisticated to know better. That > ruling class is to blame for the lowest workforce participation rate in > history and flattened wages for 30 years and massive increases in the > numbers on food stamps. That ruling class needs to be told loudly and > clearly to go pound sand. > > On Saturday, July 9, 2016 at 11:19:27 AM UTC-4, gtheist957 wrote: >> >> I would think that tariffs would be used as a bargaining chip in >> renegotiating past trade agreements. The national debt and negative trade >> balances are hollowing out our domestic economy. Creating more service jobs >> is not going to bring back capital. We have to produce products for >> overseas trade. NAFTA/CAFTA and TPP should it be ratified are another >> redistribution mechanism to level living standards and merge national >> economies. >> On Jul 9, 2016 9:36 AM, "MJ" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Friday, July 08, 2016 >>> >>> *Protectionism Will Not Make America Great *Pierre-Guy Veer >>> >>> At the end of June, presumptive Republican nominee Donald Trump made a fiery >>> speech >>> <http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/full-transcript-trump-job-plan-speech-224891> >>> about trade in Pittsburgh. Using many of Bernie Sanders’ talking points >>> <http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-trade/> on the subject, Trump >>> said, among others, that he would hold China accountable for the >>> manipulation of its currency and unfair trade practices, withdraw from the >>> Trans-Pacific Partnership, and renegotiate the North American Free Trade >>> Agreement with Mexico and Canada. >>> >>> >>> *Trade vs. Trade Treaties *There is some wisdom on Trump’s part about >>> NAFTA. This agreement would deserve the label “bureaucratic agreement on >>> trade” rather than “free trade agreement.” >>> >>> For example, Annex 313 >>> <https://www.nafta-sec-alena.org/Home/Legal-Texts/North-American-Free-Trade-Agreement?mvid=2> >>> states that Bourbon and Tennessee Whiskey can only be called as such (and >>> be sold) if they are produced in Tennessee “in accordance with the laws and >>> regulations of the United States governing the manufacture of Bourbon >>> Whiskey and Tennessee Whiskey.” >>> >>> The same rule applies to Canadian Whisky in Canada and Tequila and >>> Mezcal in Mexico. Annex 703.2.A.4, on its side, contains a truckload of >>> products which are exempted from free trade, including Canada’s milk >>> supply management >>> <http://www.iedm.org/fr/2551-sour-milk-system-canadas-dairy-quota-system-of-supply-management-ensures-that-canadians-will-pay-more-and-inefficiencies-wi> >>> which may cost the average family >>> <http://www.torontosun.com/2015/07/10/canadians-milked-by-dairy-quotes> >>> $267 a year. >>> >>> Trump is also right about being hesitant to support the TPP. What has >>> leaked >>> <https://fee.org/articles/trans-pacific-partnership-is-about-control-not-free-trade/> >>> out of it shows that the agreement has more to do about protecting >>> intellectual property rather than genuine trade liberalization. Such >>> protection would stifle innovation >>> <http://c4sif.org/2013/10/longer-copyright-terms-stiffer-copyright-penalties-coming-thanks-to-tpp-and-acta/> >>> and slow economic growth – just imagine if there had been a patent on the >>> wheel or iron casting when it was first invented. >>> >>> >>> *Fairness is Buying What You Want from Wherever *However, Donald Trump >>> is wrong to advocate for “fair” trade. In his platform >>> <https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/us-china-trade-reform> he calls >>> for a level playing field in order to have a “fairer” trading relationship >>> with China, known for its heavy top-down approach on foreign businesses >>> <http://www.weeklystandard.com/how-chinese-regulatory-authorities-impose-protectionist-trade-policies/article/903435> >>> . >>> >>> This amounts to protectionism that could set off a very costly trade >>> war. American consumers will pay the price – a form of tax. It could set >>> off a deep recession. When you consider the stakes here, you see that all >>> of Trump’s valid complaints about trade treaties are designed to bring >>> about something that is even worse. >>> >>> If, however, Trump’s goal is really to “make America great again,” then >>> he should not be caring about China’s trade practices, but embracing >>> unilateral free trade. >>> >>> Of course there would be unavoidable, short-term pain with job losses in >>> industries that cannot compete with China and other industries. The steel >>> industry, for example, would not be protected by the recently enabled >>> 266-percent >>> <http://www.aei.org/publication/us-steel-tariffs-a-case-study-in-protectionism-economic-losses-on-net-and-legal-plunder/> >>> tariff imposed on Chinese steel and would shed many jobs. >>> >>> However, people using steel (for construction, manufacturing, etc.) >>> would save so much money by being able to import cheaper steel. This >>> surplus money will not evaporate; it will return in the economy in the form >>> of savings, job creation, and economic growth. >>> >>> This is not trade theory: unilateral free trade has successfully >>> happened. Famous French liberal Frédéric Bastiat has abundantly talked >>> about England turning to unilateral free trade >>> <http://bastiat.org/fr/angleterre_et_libre_echange.html> and how it >>> helped the country become even richer. It even “gave them bread >>> <http://bastiat.org/fr/liberte_pain.html>” during a bad harvest 1847 >>> thanks to wheat imports. >>> >>> By walking down this “bold path,” to quote minister Peel who enacted >>> free trade, America would truly be great. Government would stop subsidizing >>> agriculture in every single form, thereby not only improving >>> <http://www.ceres.org/issues/water/agriculture/the-cost-of-corn> the >>> quality of the water supply, but also reversing the contentious debate >>> about undocumented Mexicans whose livelihood was destroyed by U.S. corn >>> subsidies >>> <http://www.acton.org/pub/commentary/2012/02/29/corn-subsidies-root-us-mexico-immigration-problems>. >>> Capital resources would be allocated in a more efficient way according to >>> supply and demand – it might still be farming, but it could become >>> manufacturing, mining, or even services – and save an average >>> <http://www.aei.org/publication/a-midterm-review-of-the-2014-farm-bill/> >>> of $6.1 billion per year until 2019. >>> >>> Trade liberalization, combined with Trump’s promises >>> <https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/us-china-trade-reform> to lower >>> business income tax to 15 percent and tackle the deficit and debt, would >>> truly “make America great again.” Because after the unavoidable short-term >>> pain of adjusting to new incentives, Americans will get back to work and >>> better supply the world’s demand on their own. >>> >>> https://fee.org/articles/protectionism-will-not-make-america-great/ >>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. >>> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum >>> >>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ >>> * It's active and moderated. 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