turns out the story is off course as well. Ford doesn't need the
money. Turns out their cars are selling well in Europe. Turns out
they are asking for a loan that will ONLY be used if the other two
automakers go out of business, because the suppliers who service all
three automakers will also go out of business (as will all of the
small businesses that rely on the autoworkers to purchase everything
from clothing to haircuts and everything in between).
GM and Chrysler (especially) DO need the money. It's about legacy
costs for their retirees and their healthplans. If we had a
healthcare plan for all Americans, the costs for the automakers would
go down enormously and they would be profitable. Does anyone here
want to give up their retirement accounts -- while they're in
retirement, mind you -- because your company is allowed to fail?
Automakers have, until this year, been making the cars Americans
wanted to buy. The big trucks and big vans, and SUVs were (and
probably still are) what most Americans prefer to drive. I live in
Georgia and trucks and SUVs down here rule the road. Americans need
to change their mindsets.
In addition, a closer look at the plants in Alabama specifically, show
that the state gave all sorts of concessions to those companies to
locate there. One economist looked at it and found that Alabama pays
(and did pay) $175,000 per job so that three of the plants would
locate in that state.
If the US government paid GM and Chrysler $175,000 per job to keep
them there, it would be more than they are asking for right now. We
need to keep these people intheir jobs if we don't want to go into the
arms of a gripping depression. And it's not their fault, it's not
because they make terrible cars (hasn't anyone seen the safety report
issued this year -- only Chrysler didn't make even one model to get on
the list -- Ford leads it).
Management hasn't been great -- they should have been making small
cars too. There's no question. But gas prices haven't driven them to
do it. Even when it hit $3.00 average, people were still driving
their trucks and SUVs.
More unemployment is really the last thing that we can afford at this
point. It's cheaper to save them then to let them go. Chapter 11 or
Chapter 13 would be great if there were cash around to offer them a
bridge loan until they worked it out. There's no cash around. That's
why the government has to take up the slack.
On Dec 5, 5:10 am, Moe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The European standpoint was that if the American auto industry could
> get organized then the bell would ring for the European car makers.
> They quoted that the unions were more disciplined and the costs were
> lower than anything in Europe. GM managed to prevent American cars
> from selling in Europe. Ford also stopped the Europeans from getting
> to buy American products. Crysler due to Mercedes sold cars in Europe.
> Talked to an American about US cars and they tell you that they are
> junk. These are the same people who have never seen a Porsche running
> behind a Corvette on the German autobahn. In Sweden American cars last
> 10 to 20 years, The the shitty and corrupt unions is a poor way to
> describe the problems. BMW, Mercedes and Porsche, VW too are all
> unionized and are still in the position to sell cars in the US. German
> workers are able to buy German cars. There has got to be a new way of
> thinking in the American mind. All those who felt good with McCain and
> Palin will one day wake up and see the US on it´s back. You sit in
> Europe and see on CNN that the 3 major auto makers come to Washington
> without a marketing plan, and get dumped upon because of their planes,
> and that is being done by someone who got voted into offfice because
> he believes in Jesus and all problems are solved in the bible. If
> America stays at the niveau of someone like Palin then you can turn
> off the lights. The story with the rowing teams, cute but will not buy
> a pound of bread.
>
> On Dec 5, 9:57 am, Travis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > The fault that the 3 are failing lies with both the shitty and corrupt
> > unions and the shitty and corrupt managment. Let them all go to chapter 11.
> > the govt has no business ever bailing out any company/individual/ or another
> > country. with no exceptions.
>
> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 6:53 PM, Hollywood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
>
> > > Travis,
>
> > > And yet somehow most conservatives will come to the conclusion that
> > > Ford's performance is the fault of the union. Go fugure.
>
> > > On Dec 4, 3:50 pm, Travis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > From: Travis
> > > > Subject: IF THIS WASN'T SO TRUE IT MIGHT BE FUNNY
> > > > Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008,
>
> > > > A Modern Parable
>
> > > > A Japanese company (*Toyota**) and an American company (Ford Motor)
> > > decided
> > > > to have a canoe race on the **Missouri River**. Both teams practiced
> > > > long
> > > > and hard to reach their peak performance before the race.
>
> > > > On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.
>
> > > > The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate
> > > > the
> > > > reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior
> > > > management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action.
>
> > > > Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person
> > > steering,
> > > > while the American team had 8 people steering and 1 person rowing.
>
> > > > Feeling a deeper study was in order, American management hired a
> > > consulting
> > > > company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion.
>
> > > > They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat,
> > > while
> > > > not enough people were rowing.
>
> > > > Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent
> > > another
> > > > loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally
> > > > reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 3 area steering superintendents
> > > and 1
> > > > assistant superintendent steering manager.
>
> > > > They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 1
> > > person
> > > > rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the
> > > 'Rowing
> > > > Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners and free pens for
> > > > the
> > > > rower. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other
> > > > equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses.
>
> > > > The next year the Japanese won by two miles.
>
> > > > Humiliated, the American management laid off the rower for poor
> > > performance,
> > > > halted development of a new canoe, sold the paddles, and canceled all
> > > > capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed
> > > to
> > > > the Senior Executives as bonuses and the next year's racing team was
> > > > out-sourced to **India**.
>
> > > > Sadly, The End.
>
> > > > Here's something else to think about: Ford has spent the last thirty
> > > years
> > > > moving all its factories out of the **US**, claiming they can't make
> > > money
> > > > paying American wages.
>
> > > > **TOYOTA** has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen
> > > plants
> > > > inside the **US**. The last quarter's results: **
> > > > **
> > > > **TOYOTA** makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in
> > > > losses.
>
> > > > Ford folks are still scratching their heads.*
>
> > > > --
> > > > *~@):~{>
>
> > --
> > *~@):~{>- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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