Count on it Turtle! On Dec 30, 6:30 am, El Tortuga <[email protected]> wrote: > do you plan on being a whining moonbat this coming new year Mellonhead > Mike? > > On Dec 30, 8:20 am, "mike [never forget] 532" > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > Two Dangerous Bush-Cheney Mythshttp://www.truthout.org/122908R > > As George W. Bush and Dick Cheney make their case for some positive > > legacy from the past eight years, two arguments are playing key > > roles: > > the notion that torturing terror suspects saved American lives and > > the > > belief that Bush's Iraq troop "surge" transformed a disaster into > > something close to "victory." > > > Not only will these twin arguments be important in defining the > > public's future impression of where Bush should rank on the > > presidential list, but they could constrain how far President Barack > > Obama can go in reversing these policies. In other words, the > > perception of the past can affect the future. > > > Though most current thinking holds that George W. Bush might want > > to trademark the slogan "Worst President Ever," America's powerful > > right-wing media (and its many allies in the mainstream press) will > > surely seek to rehabilitate Bush's reputation as much as possible. > > > Even elevating Bush to the status of a presidential mediocrity > > might open the door for a revival of the Bush Dynasty with brother > > Jeb > > already eyeing one of Florida's U.S. Senate seats and possibly > > harboring grander ambitions. > > > And even if another Bush in the White House is not realistic, a > > kinder-gentler judgment on George W. Bush at least could help the > > Republican Party rebound in 2010 and 2012. So evaluating the Bush- > > Cheney torture policies and how successful the "surge" are not just > > academic exercises. > > > Two recent articles by people with first-hand knowledge also shed > > important new light on these issues: one by a lead U.S. interrogator > > in Iraq and the other by former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. > > > The interrogator - using the pseudonym "Matthew Alexander" for an > > article in the Washington Post's Outlook section on Nov. 30 - wrote > > that the practice of humiliating and abusing prisoners had proved > > counterproductive, not only violating U.S. principles and failing to > > extract reliable intelligence but fueling the Iraqi insurgency and > > getting large numbers of U.S. soldiers killed. > > > Indeed, "Alexander," a U.S. Air Force special operations officer, > > argued that it was his team's abandonment of those harsh tactics that > > contributed to the tracking down and killing of the murderous al- > > Qaeda > > in Iraq leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in June 2006, an important > > turning > > point in reducing levels of violence in Iraq. > > > "Alexander" said he arrived in Iraq in March 2006, amid the > > bloody > > civil war that Sunni extremist Zarqawi had helped provoke a month > > earlier with the bombing of the golden-domed Askariya mosque in > > Samarra, a shrine revered by Iraq's majority Shiites. > > > "Amid the chaos, four other Air Force criminal investigators and > > I > > joined an elite team of interrogators attempting to locate Zarqawi," > > he wrote. "What I soon discovered about our methods astonished me. > > The > > Army was still conducting interrogations according to the Guantanamo > > Bay model. ... These interrogations were based on fear and control; > > they often resulted in torture and abuse. > > > "I refused to participate in such practices, and a month later, I > > extended that prohibition to the team of interrogators I was assigned > > to lead. I taught the members of my unit a new methodology -- one > > based on building rapport with suspects, showing cultural > > understanding and using good old-fashioned brainpower to tease out > > information." > > > Breakthroughs > > > By getting to know the captives and negotiating with them, his > > team achieved breakthroughs that enabled the U.S. military to close > > in > > on Zarqawi while also gaining a deeper understanding of what drove > > the > > Iraqi insurgency, "Alexander" wrote. > > > "Over the course of this renaissance in interrogation tactics, > > our > > attitudes changed. We no longer saw our prisoners as the > > stereotypical > > al-Qaeda evildoers we had been repeatedly briefed to expect; we saw > > them as Sunni Iraqis, often family men protecting themselves from > > Shiite militias and trying to ensure that their fellow Sunnis would > > still have some access to wealth and power in the new Iraq. > > > "Most surprisingly, they turned out to despise al-Qaeda in Iraq > > as > > much as they despised us, but Zarqawi and his thugs were willing to > > provide them with arms and money," the interrogator wrote, noting > > that > > this understanding played a key role in the U.S. military turning > > many > > Sunnis against the hyper-violent extremism of Zarqawi's organization. > > > "Alexander" added that the new interrogation methods "convinced > > one of Zarqawi's associates to give up the al-Qaeda in Iraq leader's > > location. On June 8, 2006, U.S. warplanes dropped two 500-pound bombs > > on a house where Zarqawi was meeting with other insurgent leaders." > > > Despite the success in killing Zarqawi, "Alexander" said the old, > > harsh interrogation methods continued. "I came home from Iraq feeling > > as if my mission was far from accomplished," he wrote. "Soon after my > > return, the public learned that another part of our government, the > > CIA, had repeatedly used waterboarding to try to get information out > > of detainees." > > > "Alexander" found that the engrained support for using "rough > > stuff" against hardened jihadists was difficult to overcome despite > > the successes from more subtle approaches. > > > "We turned several hard cases, including some foreign fighters, > > by > > using our new techniques," he wrote. "A few of them never abandoned > > the jihadist cause but still gave up critical information. One > > actually told me, 'I thought you would torture me, and when you > > didn't, I decided that everything I was told about Americans was > > wrong. That's why I decided to cooperate.'" > > > From hundreds of these interrogations, "Alexander" said he > > learned > > that the images from Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib were actually > > getting American soldiers killed by drawing angry young Arabs into > > the > > Iraq War. > > > "Torture and abuse cost American lives," the interrogator wrote. > > "I learned in Iraq that the No. 1 reason foreign fighters flocked > > there to fight were the abuses carried out at Abu Ghraib and > > Guantanamo. Our policy of torture was directly and swiftly recruiting > > fighters for al-Qaeda in Iraq. The large majority of suicide bombings > > in Iraq are still carried out by these foreigners. They are also > > involved in most of the attacks on U.S. and coalition forces in Iraq. > > > "It's no exaggeration to say that at least half of our losses and > > casualties in that country have come at the hands of foreigners who > > joined the fray because of our program of detainee abuse. The number > > of U.S. soldiers who have died because of our torture policy will > > never be definitively known, but it is fair to say that it is close > > to > > the number of lives lost on Sept. 11, 2001. > > > "How anyone can say that torture keeps Americans safe is beyond > > me > > -- unless you don't count American soldiers as Americans." > > > Nevertheless, in a series of candid "exit interviews," Vice > > President Cheney - and to a lesser degree President Bush - have > > defended their actions that included sanctioning brutal methods of > > interrogation, such as the simulated drowning of > > "waterboarding." [See > > Consortiumnews.com's "Cheney Defends Waterboarding Order."]- Hide quoted > > text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
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