"Wishful thinking" of what, if I may comment. Since the demise of the Latin Liturgy of the RCC, it has been interesting to watch the "adjustments" of Catholics to society and how it impacts their lives/ decisions. The winner is moral relativism and a sucking up of popular psychology, trends and/or a rebelion against real or imagined repressions imposed by the Old Church/parents. Many of my contemporaries left the Church though some kept the toe of their Faith in the door to honor the tradition of Sacraments. Others kept/keep their distance to cope with their choices or those of their children. Still others, a younger group I hung out with for decades while raising my last two children and perhaps your age, as well, have completely remade the RCC into their own fantasy version and are quite derisive in their comments about Rome and their Bishops, however they are generous in tithes, attendance and volunteerism but some of this springs from a duty of wealth and noblesse oblige of financialsuccess/ Materialism. Worldly Catholics are sure they are thin enough to pass though the "eye of the Needle". And the Church has always loved donors, regardless. Always a conflict when examining the history of the RCC is the tension between Faith and obvious/certain flaws of human management of the Divine- Wm. Manchester has a short, scathing book on the subject. Sin and virtue are just words that attempt to cope with the struggles of/for character and that is a very old struggle- the Greeks also wrangled with it in Pagan terms/explanation (Aristotle, etc.). So, of course, contemporary Catholics would vote for Obama.
On Apr 3, 12:07 pm, Biff <[email protected]> wrote: > I go to Catholic Church almost every week, you may as well also, but > if you think American Catholics are in step with the bishops. I don't > agree. In the two parishes here it's probably 50/50 on the question of > abortion. The voting patterns of American Catholics testify to that > (actually 55-45 voted Democratic). In other words your assessment that > Obama is "out of line" with Americans and American Catholics is just > wishful thinking. > > "Catholic Vote Swings Democratic in Midterm Elections > > by Jeff Diamant > Religion News Service > > Catholics, who compose a massive 67 million-person slice of the > electorate, favored Democrats in Tuesday's election by 55 percent to > 45 percent, according to National Election Pool exit polls. > > That's a marked difference from 2004, when President Bush, a > Republican United Methodist, won 52 percent of the Catholic vote and > Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., a Catholic, received 47 percent. > > Catholic voting patterns varied by state, but the overall shift helped > Democrats in several big states like Pennsylvania and Ohio, according > to John Green, a senior fellow at Washington's Pew Forum on Religion > and Public Life. > > For much of the 20th century, American Catholics were loyal Democrats, > but in recent elections their voting patterns have been largely > indistinguishable from the general population. > > And for the last quarter-century, conservative Catholics and white > evangelicals have increasingly voted Republican, making opposition to > abortion and same-sex marriage their top political issues. > > Yet since the 2004 presidential election, liberal religious groups > have worked to get the Catholic vote back to the Democratic Party, > using the issues of poverty, health care and environmentalism as ways > to get voters' attention. A liberal group called Catholics in Alliance > for the Common Good credits those efforts for the shifts reflected in > Tuesday's voting." > > On Mar 31, 9:16 am, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Thank you for sharing this article by Tom Mattzie Biff. > > > First, I would be opposed to Notre Dame rescinding the offer made to > > President Obama inviting him to speak at Notre Dame's commencement > > ceremonies in May. Despite my opposition to most all of President Obama's > > policies, and my questioning his legitimacy as the president because of the > > constitutionality of his presidency, President Obama is still the President > > of the United States, and should be afforded the respect of the office of > > President. > > > If President Obama had any common decency, common sense, or moral fortitude, > > President Obama would personally decline the offer, being that > > the fundamental tenets of Notre Dame and Catholicism is in direct contrast > > to his policies and agenda. > > > Where Mr. Mattzie gets his belief that there is some "Republican operative > > in Right Wing Groups that founded the group attacking Notre Dame is asinine, > > and a typical far left, radical extremist ploy. The fact is, that the > > United States Conference of Catholic Bishops has previously called for > > Catholic institutions to shun those political figures who act “in defiance > > of our fundamental moral principles”: > > >http://www.usccb.org/bishops/catholicsinpoliticallife.shtml > > > There is a large backlash from student groups and student unions at Notre > > Dame who are opposed to President Obama's appearance: > > > "Notre Dame Student Groups Denounce University's Choice for Commencement > > Speech" : > > >http://www.ndresponse.com/press.html > > > There is a large backlash among Catholics in general. The Bishop that is > > head of the Catholic Diocese in South Bend Indiana has refused to attend, as > > well as a significant amount of dignitaries who are Catholic. Just as > > important, the Catholic community is upset with the decision by Notre Dame: > > >http://content.usatoday.com/communities/religion/post/2009/03/64571525/1 > > > What Mr. Mattzie fails to realize, is that it is he, and the Democrat Party > > that are out of touch with Americans and our Nation. Mr. Mattzie's > > partisan statement that, > > > "Right-wing institutes and non-profits that seek to influence protestant > > churches and Judaism. Their goal is to undermine religious social thought > > that might tilt things towards progressive policies rather than the > > now-failed conservative policies." > > > clearly shows that Mr. Mattzie is out-of-touch with not only his faith, > > but with the rest of Americans. I would challenge Mr. Mattzie, as well as > > you Biff, to name, the "great and large swath of Catholic teaching(s)" that > > Mr. Mattzie references, which he believes President Obama supports. > > > There are none. The Democrat Party, as well as President Obama are out of > > touch with America, as they are clearly seeing and beginning to understand. > > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Biff <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > ....."This is an effort by a small cabal of ultra-conservative > > > partisans to separate Catholicism from its calling for social and > > > economic justice and peace. A Republican operative who has > > > simultaneous roles at other Right-Wing groups founded the group > > > attacking Notre Dame. > > > > There are similar efforts is about the giant fights in Washington right > > > now > > > over the > > > economy, health care and the future of our planet. > > > > These Obama and Notre Dame critics are not speaking for a serious > > > number of the tens of millions of American Catholics who voted for > > > Barack Obama--nor even probably most of those who voted for John > > > McCain. > > > > As an alumnus of Notre Dame (Class of 1997 and one-time class > > > president) who has gone on to a career in Democratic and progressive > > > politics I am proud that my alma mater is welcoming our president. > > > > There is no doubt that Notre Dame, as a Catholic institution, will > > > disagree with the president on specific issues like abortion. But > > > there is a great and large swath of Catholic teaching that addresses > > > policies for people who are poor, sick, aged, immigrants, those with > > > disabilities, war enemies and those in prison. These attacks on Notre > > > Dame are an attack on Catholic social teachings." > > > > Tom Mattzie > > > > On Mar 30, 8:27 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > It will be interesting to see if Notre Dame shucks Obama as a > > > > Commencement speaker/ recipient of an an honorary law degree in the > > > > face of rising opposition. We know Obama's "buck" is continuous- where > > > > does the moral position of a faith turn into loose change? > > > > > On Mar 30, 7:38 pm, Jim Willis <[email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > The straw dog put forth by the leftist sadist loons is that, “abiding > > > > > solely within their ranks” is compassion for minorities, the oppressed > > > > > and disenfranchised. Though; this beguiles their absolute mission to > > > > > simply prostitute these groups in a quest to abolish the religious > > > > > underpinnings this country was founded upon. Karl Marx once said, > > > > > “Religion is the opiate of the masses”. It has been the ardent > > > > > ambition of liberal progressives to detoxify America of all religious, > > > > > “opiates” and to remove the moral handrails of the huddled masses. > > > > > > Prior to the Roe V. Wade decision of 1973 progressives denied a > > > > > religious or political perspective postulation on the subject of > > > > > abortion. Their claim, “at that time” was that abortion was a > > > > > constitutional issue, not a social conundrum to be left to the sway of > > > > > the electorate over its properly elected representatives. And; thanks > > > > > to a legislative Supreme Court, a finding of a general right to > > > > > privacy in the constitution, “where ones does not exist”, emanations > > > > > of penumbras along with a complete adulteration of our binding > > > > > document; the right to an abortion became the law of the land, “though > > > > > not one citizen voted for it”. > > > > > > Then; before the ink had dried on the courts opinion, lying leftists > > > > > leapt into action, “belying their true aspiration” by reversing > > > > > previous posits on post conception as a legal argument and > > > > > diametrically bemused that the slaughter of the un-born, “AK.A. > > > > > Choice” is Social-Political speech. Expanding that vein the Neo- > > > > > Leftists concluded that religious organizations espousing anti- > > > > > abortion sentiments need lose their tax exempt tax status for > > > > > exhibiting political preference. This tact being akin to Jeffrey > > > > > Dahmer first saying, “I only killed them to eat them” and then saying, > > > > > “I only ate them because they were dead”. > > > > > > To this very day, lawsuits are worming their way throughout our courts > > > > > as the ACLU, “the tip of the lefts spear” challenges the tax exempt > > > > > status of the Catholic church because of their anti-abortion stance. > > > > > It was never about abortion to these heathen hedonists. It was always > > > > > an attack on religion. > > > > > > This isn’t a new phenomenon. The Nazi Socialists that encompass our > > > > > enemies on the left have been on the attack against religion for at > > > > > least a hundred years; whether it is their pursuit of Darwinism, > > > > > removing the bible from our classrooms, public squares and courtrooms > > > > > to nativity scenes, crosses and a devilish zeal to belittle religious > > > > > moorings in our pop culture. > > > > > > Latest in the Lilliputian Leftists quiver is the rear attack; “pardon > > > > > the pun” for the establishment of gay marriage. Their quest to > > > > > legitimize gay marriage has little to do with gay rights, gay marriage > > > > > or ass-less chaps. Their intent, their desire, their holy grail is to > > > > > standardize gay marriage as the norm, the law of > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. 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