Thought provoking post Bruce. Thanks for sharing.
On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 4:22 AM, bruce majors <[email protected]>wrote: > The purpose of raising trials and investigations is not to actually change > US policy > > Obama is bombing suspected terrorist to death without trials so clearly he > would torture them too > > The purpose is to silence Cheney and Condoleeza Rice and others so they > will not criticize the Obama regime in public which Cheney has been doing > > Just as the purpose of regulations and investigations of bankers and CEOs > is to let them know that if they criticize Obama's failing economic policies > they willlose their shirts and end up in prison. And of course also to > replace CEOs, who already donate heavily to the Demwit party, with new CEOs > like Franklin Raines, who will be Odumba campaign donors. > > On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 3:28 AM, iloveubuntulinux <[email protected]>wrote: > >> >> >> [image: WHOS GOING TO JAIL] >> >> http://www.thedailybeast.com/big-fat-story/2009-04-23/the-consequences-of-torture/ >> >> [image: George W. Bush, Dick Cheney] >> BUSH AND CHENEY >> Odds: SAFE >> >> Indicting the Big Two would be politically untenable. >> >> Prosecution against President Bush and Vice President Cheney seems very >> unlikely given how politically explosive such a case would become. But the >> pair are not without their vulnerabilities. Bush has said in interviews that >> he was aware that his Cabinet discussed specific interrogation techniques, >> such as waterboarding, that were used against al Qaeda operatives, and >> approved of their actions. Some legal experts, like George Washington Law >> School Professor Jonathan Turley, have >> called<http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/04/turley_we_need_a_special_torture_prosecutor_not_so.php>for >> a special prosecutor to investigate whether Bush and Cheney committed >> war crimes by ordering torture and liberal activist group MoveOn.org began a >> push this week >> targeting<http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0409/MoveOn_ups_torture_pressure.html>Cheney >> on similar grounds. "A war crime investigation does not look at the >> people who drove the trains, they look at the people who told the trains to >> roll," Turley told MSNBC's David Schuster. Reports that the White House >> pressured interrogators to torture subjects in order to find links between >> Iraq and al Qaeda that could have bolstered the case for deposing Saddam >> Hussein do not help <http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/66622.html>their >> case. >> >> Photo: Alex Wong / Getty Images >> [image: Mao >> Zedong]<http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/us/politics/22detain.html?ref=us> >> BAD BEDFELLOWS >> Torture's Twisted Roots >> >> Many of the techniques authorized were previously used by dictatorships. >> The New York >> Times<http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/us/politics/22detain.html?ref=us> >> >> One disturbing element of the torture scandal is the origins of the >> techniques used against suspected terrorists. According to The New York >> Times, Bush officials failed to take into account previous government >> studies on tactics like waterboarding, which was used under the Cambodian >> dictator Pol Pot and by Communist China. According to The Times, one >> official study in the 1950s of Chinese tactics, including sleep deprivation, >> stress positions, and other techniques similar to ones described in >> declassified torture memos, said that "all of them produce great discomfort, >> and lead to serious disturbances of many bodily processes; there is no >> reason to differentiate them from any other form of torture" and that these >> methods often produced false confessions. Techniques taken from a military >> training operation called SERE also ignored the fact that the program was >> created "to give American pilots and soldiers a sample of the torture >> methods used by Communists in the Korean War, methods that had wrung false >> confessions from Americans." According to The Times, some administration >> officials say they would have advised against using these tactics had they >> been aware of their dark history. >> >> Photo: Hsinhua News Agency / AP Photo >> [image: Donald >> Rumsfeld]<http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/LawPolitics/Story?id=4635175&page=1> >> THE CABINET >> Odds: DOUBTFUL BUT POSSIBLE >> >> Everyone from Donald Rumsfeld to Condoleezza Rice to John Ashcroft could >> be vulnerable. >> ABC News<http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/LawPolitics/Story?id=4635175&page=1> >> >> While the focus in recent days has been on the legal architects behind >> torture, key members of the Bush Cabinet could also be vulnerable to >> eventual prosecution. Starting in 2002, members of the National Security >> Council, which include such major players as former National Security >> Adviser and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, former Attorney General >> John Ashcroft, and former Secretary of State Colin Powell, were part of an >> elite group of officials who repeatedly discussed and approved specific >> details as to what techniques could be used against suspected al Qaeda >> members. Their involvement in the nitty-gritty of interrogation could make >> them vulnerable to charges of conspiracy to torture should they catch the >> attention of prosecutors. One Cabinet member who could be in particularly >> dangerous territory is former Secretary of Defense Donald >> Rumsfeld<http://www.salon.com/src/pass/sitepass/spon/sitepass_website.html>, >> who is singled out in the Senate Armed Services Committee report on torture >> as contributing to the crimes committed at Abu Ghraib. "The abuse of >> detainees at Abu Ghraib in late 2003 was not simply a result of a few >> soldiers acting on their own," the Senate report reads. "Rumsfeld's >> authorization of aggressive interrogation techniques and subsequent >> interrogation policies and plans approved by senior military and civilian >> officers conveyed the message that physical pressures and degradation were >> appropriate treatment for detainees in U.S. military custody." >> >> Photo: Dennis Cook / AP Photo >> The Consequences of Torture[image: The Consequences of Torture] >> Ron Edmonds / AP Photo >> >> With this week's myriad revelations on torture, the prospective targets of >> prosecution and impeachment have suddenly grown from the so-called Bush 6 to >> potentially dozens of officials, lawyers, and interrogators who brought us >> waterboarding, sleep deprivation, stress positions, and "walling," Here's a >> look at the odds each group involved, from President Bush himself to >> mid-level lawyers, face of court proceedings. >> [image: CIA >> seal]<http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN1627971620090416?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&sp=true> >> THE INTERROGATORS >> Odds: SAFE >> >> Obama shields the CIA officers who carried out now-banned techniques. >> Reuters<http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN1627971620090416?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&sp=true> >> >> President Obama released a series of declassified memos this week >> detailing the inner workings of the Bush administration's torture >> techniques, which included everything from sleep deprivation and forced >> nudity to placing insects in confined spaces with one prisoner. But the >> president was quick to add that the intelligence officers who carried out >> these acts would not face prosecution. "The men and women of our >> intelligence community serve courageously on the front lines of a dangerous >> world," he said in a written statement that accompanied the memos. "We must >> provide them with the confidence that they can do their jobs." The decision >> reflected concerns that CIA officers might be afraid to carry out their >> orders out of concern that they could one day be prosecuted for actions >> considered legal at the time by their superiors. The officials who >> authorized the interrogations may be less lucky, however, as President Obama >> declined to give them a similar statement of protection. >> >> Photo: David Burnett, pool / Getty Images >> [image: Eric >> Holder]<http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/21/AR2009042101692.html?hpid=topnews> >> THE LEGAL EAGLES >> Odds: TROUBLE AHEAD >> >> The lawyers who justified torture may see their day in court. >> Washington >> Post<http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/21/AR2009042101692.html?hpid=topnews> >> >> Of all the people involved in the temporary legalization of torture, none >> are more vulnerable than the lawyers whose memos provided the legal >> framework for the Bush administration's interrogation policies. While Obama >> Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel initially spoke against investigating former >> White House officials over torture, the decision is a legal one, not a >> political one, and thus ultimately up to Attorney General Eric Holder. >> President Obama >> clarified<http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-04-22/obamas-about-face-on-prosecution/>this >> point later, saying that "with respect to those who formulated those >> legal decisions, I would say that that is going to be more of a decision for >> the attorney general within the parameters of various laws, and I don't want >> to prejudge that." Former President Bush and other officials who approved >> torture techniques have justified their actions by claiming that their legal >> advisers had signed off on the policies. These lawyers issued a series of >> memos giving approval to enhanced interrogation techniques, creating a paper >> trail that could put them on the hot seat if prosecutors decide to follow >> through on the case. Some of those involved in drafting the opinions include >> former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, Dick Cheney's former Chief of >> Staff David Addington, and former Deputy Assistant Attorney General Yoo, all >> of whom could face potential prosecution down the line. Already, some are >> suggesting that one of the memos' authors, former Assistant Attorney General >> Jay Bybee, who is currently a federal judge, should be impeached for his >> involvement in authorizing torture. Writing in The Daily Beast this week, >> former Nixon White House Counsel John Dean >> said<http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-04-21/should-the-judge-who-wrote-the-torture-memos-be-impeached/>that >> such a move is unlikely given the narrow scope of impeachment laws for >> judges. >> >> Photo: Win McNamee / Getty Images >> [image: Alberto >> Gonzales]<http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-04-16/new-hope-for-the-bush-six/> >> FOREIGN COURTS >> Odds: ASK JUDGE GARZON >> >> The architects of Bush's torture policy are already facing potential >> prosecution in Europe. >> The Daily >> Beast<http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-04-16/new-hope-for-the-bush-six/> >> __._,_.___ >> Messages in this topic >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Jakes_Political_War_Room/message/218965;_ylc=X3oDMTM4czNtdHFvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM5Njg1NzQEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwMzc1BG1zZ0lkAzIxODk2NQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEyNDA2NDQ0ODkEdHBjSWQDMjE4OTY1> >> (1) Reply (via web post) >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Jakes_Political_War_Room/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyaHU4bGNwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM5Njg1NzQEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwMzc1BG1zZ0lkAzIxODk2NQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEyNDA2NDQ0ODk-?act=reply&messageNum=218965>| >> Start a new topic >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Jakes_Political_War_Room/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNHFkc2x0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM5Njg1NzQEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwMzc1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTI0MDY0NDQ4OQ--> >> Messages<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Jakes_Political_War_Room/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMDIwMGpwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM5Njg1NzQEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwMzc1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI0MDY0NDQ4OQ-->| >> Database<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Jakes_Political_War_Room/database;_ylc=X3oDMTJjdnYwZGk0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM5Njg1NzQEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwMzc1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2RiBHN0aW1lAzEyNDA2NDQ0ODk->| >> Polls<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Jakes_Political_War_Room/polls;_ylc=X3oDMTJmY3NzbjFtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM5Njg1NzQEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwMzc1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3BvbGxzBHN0aW1lAzEyNDA2NDQ0ODk-> >> MARKETPLACE >> I'm happy I lost my Job. 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