Hey Mark, I strongly suggest that you read Benjamin Franklin's autobiography. You will surely change your views.
Moreover, Jefferson had absolutely no use for Islam, especially when dealing with the Barbary Pirates, (all Muslim) and some of Jefferson's thoughts can be found here: http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/collections/jefferson_papers/mtjprece.html On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 4:39 PM, THE ANNOINTED ONE <[email protected]>wrote: > > Putz cable guy, > > You aren't even smart enough to know that our founding fathers > approved of Islam..... > > Benjamin Rush, the Pennsylvania signer of the Declaration of > Independence and friend of Adams and Jefferson, applauded this feature > of Islam, asserting that he had "rather see the opinions of Confucius > or Mohammed inculcated upon our youth than see them grow up wholly > devoid of a system of religious principles." > > That ordinary citizens shared these positive views is demonstrated by > a petition of a group of citizens of Chesterfield County, Va., to the > state assembly, Nov. 14, 1785: "Let Jews, Mehometans and Christians of > every denomination enjoy religious liberty…thrust them not out now by > establishing the Christian religion lest thereby we become our own > enemys and weaken this infant state. It is mens labour in our > Manufactories, their services by sea and land that aggrandize our > Country and not their creeds. Chain your citizens to the state by > their Interest. Let Jews, Mehometans, and Christians of every > denomination find their advantage in living under your laws." > > The Founders of this nation explicitly included Islam in their vision > of the future of the republic. Freedom of religion, as they conceived > it, encompassed it. Adherents of the faith were, with some exceptions, > regarded as men and women who would make law-abiding, productive > citizens. Far from fearing Islam, the Founders would have incorporated > it into the fabric of American life. > > George Washington's 1785 letter wherein he declared that he would > welcome "Mohometans" to Mount Vernon if they were "good workmen." > > In his seminal Letter on Toleration (1689), John Locke insisted that > Muslims and all others who believed in God be tolerated in England. > Campaigning for religious freedom in Virginia, Jefferson followed > Locke, his idol, in demanding recognition of the religious rights of > the "Mahamdan," the Jew and the "pagan." Supporting Jefferson was his > old ally, Richard Henry Lee, who had made a motion in Congress on June > 7, 1776, that the American colonies declare independence. "True > freedom," Lee asserted, "embraces the Mahomitan and the Gentoo (Hindu) > as well as the Christian religion." > > In his autobiography, Jefferson recounted with satisfaction that in > the struggle to pass his landmark Bill for Establishing Religious > Freedom (1786), the Virginia legislature "rejected by a great > majority" an effort to limit the bill's scope "in proof that they > meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and > the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan." George Washington suggested > a way for Muslims to "obtain proper relief" from a proposed Virginia > bill, laying taxes to support Christian worship. On another occasion, > the first president declared that he would welcome "Mohometans" to > Mount Vernon if they were "good workmen" (see page 96). Officials in > Massachusetts were equally insistent that their influential > Constitution of 1780 afforded "the most ample liberty of conscience … > to Deists, Mahometans, Jews and Christians," a point that Chief > Justice Theophilus Parsons resoundingly affirmed in 1810. > > ....More influential observers had a different view of Muslims. In > 1783, the president of Yale College, Ezra Stiles, cited a study > showing that "Mohammadan" morals were "far superior to the Christian." > Another New Englander believed that the "moral principles that were > inculcated by their teachers had a happy tendency to render them good > members of society." The reference here, as other commentators made > clear, was to Islam's belief, which it shared with Christianity, in a > "future state of rewards and punishments," a system of celestial > carrots and sticks which the Founding generation considered necessary > to guarantee good social conduct. > > Funny how you bastardize the thoughts and ideals of our founders while > espousing support for your revisionist view of what you wanted them to > be..... > > Go get an education then come back to the table. > > > > > On May 17, 10:07 pm, Jim Willis <[email protected]> > wrote: > > I’m just saying; this tortured torture argument is a lot of flummery > > foisted as a faux pas targeting those who have dedicated their lives > > to protecting us, the people. Cognizant, coherent citizens are engaged > > in a debate where they question the methods of safety provided them. > > When you think about it, it’s akin to the sperm complaining to the egg > > about the condom. > > > > I’m not buying it, or even renting it by the mile. My personal policy > > is pro-torture. I’ve taken it as an article of faith. And trust me; > > I’ve given torture a great deal of reflection…after all, I have ex- > > wives. > > > > But, and think about this; we are the lone superpower remaining on > > this spinning orb and the best we can do is water sports. As John > > Stossel would say, “give me a break”. I long for that ole time > > torture. You know; the fire and brimstone, can I haaaaaave an amen, > > drawing and quartering, the iron maiden dosee doe. Ah yes, good times. > > > > For all of you short bussers on the left and you middle of the road > > Forrest Gumps, this gets pretty simple. You can even play along at > > home. We are at war with a cult like pseudo-religion that has as its > > sacrament the rape of children, the rape of women and the rape of > > goats; just not in that order. > > > > How about it, friends, neighbors and countrymen? Think about it; we > > are flogging ourselves in some sort of self flagellation because a few > > pieces of excrement were made somewhat uncomfortable. > > > > This might surprise you limp wristed leftist Looney tunes but the > > father of our country had definite ideals and inspirations in his > > command. You might say he was the original motivational speaker. He > > regularly whipped subordinates for insubordination and executed > > deserters. He bucked up. He got the job done. And here’s the thing; > > don’t try that civilized, the times have changed, we are more > > enlightened flank attack on my soon to be recognized as a literary > > masterpiece postulation. That ship has sailed Sally. > > > > Just because you Sheila’s don’t have the backbone or testicular > > fortitude to put Abdulla’s head in a vice until he gives up what well > > little Timmy is in doesn’t give you the right to question those of us > > that will do the heavy lifting and put us in the dock. Better yet to > > simply say thank-you and leave us to protecting your sorry ass. > > > > Yet, instead; you decry the methods that we stalwarts employ to allow > > you to peacefully sleep at night in a cozy home filled with promising > > offspring. How dare you! How dare you question the methods that we > > apply to the protection of you and the ones you love? > > > > How sanctimonious you must be. To bitterly suffer the application of a > > trying debate that stakes it flag to the mythical high moral ground in > > only the abstract. When in, “dynamic realism” innocent people are > > butchered while good men do nothing. > > > > Listen up you symbiotic simian stupidest scene stealers. All of the > > theatrics, hand wringing aestivations hoping to stretch this debate > > well nigh into the fall, one might presume that at some point the > > adults will once again command the steering of this frog back into a > > tadpole. This isn’t news. Hell yes we should torture. It should be > > done quietly and not on the front page of the New York Slimes. Come to > > think of it; my garage is pretty quiet. I’m just saying…. > > Conservative Springfield Staff Writer > > > > On May 17, 2:06 pm, Hollywood <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > KIT, > > > > > Best you can do under the circumstances? Lame, very lame. > > > > > On May 17, 11:18 am, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 10:40 AM, SgtUSMC <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > I wonder who wrote that and was he fired for opposing the > president's > > > > > views? > > > > > > BeatDeadHorse.gif > > > > 174KViewDownload- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
