I just read it. I have always thought Jefferson to be a straight forward author of his own thoughts. Much better than revisionists like PUTZ boy, the cable installer or his proponents and apologizers.
I failed to see ANY mention of religion in your offering where it was directly addressed in mine. Try harder.... On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]>wrote: > Hey Mark, > > I strongly suggest that you read Benjamin Franklin's autobiography. You > will surely change your views. > > Moreover, Jefferson had absolutely no use for Islam, especially when > dealing with the Barbary Pirates, (all Muslim) and some of Jefferson's > thoughts can be found here: > > http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/collections/jefferson_papers/mtjprece.html > > On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 4:39 PM, THE ANNOINTED ONE > <[email protected]>wrote: > >> >> Putz cable guy, >> >> You aren't even smart enough to know that our founding fathers >> approved of Islam..... >> >> Benjamin Rush, the Pennsylvania signer of the Declaration of >> Independence and friend of Adams and Jefferson, applauded this feature >> of Islam, asserting that he had "rather see the opinions of Confucius >> or Mohammed inculcated upon our youth than see them grow up wholly >> devoid of a system of religious principles." >> >> That ordinary citizens shared these positive views is demonstrated by >> a petition of a group of citizens of Chesterfield County, Va., to the >> state assembly, Nov. 14, 1785: "Let Jews, Mehometans and Christians of >> every denomination enjoy religious liberty…thrust them not out now by >> establishing the Christian religion lest thereby we become our own >> enemys and weaken this infant state. It is mens labour in our >> Manufactories, their services by sea and land that aggrandize our >> Country and not their creeds. Chain your citizens to the state by >> their Interest. Let Jews, Mehometans, and Christians of every >> denomination find their advantage in living under your laws." >> >> The Founders of this nation explicitly included Islam in their vision >> of the future of the republic. Freedom of religion, as they conceived >> it, encompassed it. Adherents of the faith were, with some exceptions, >> regarded as men and women who would make law-abiding, productive >> citizens. Far from fearing Islam, the Founders would have incorporated >> it into the fabric of American life. >> >> George Washington's 1785 letter wherein he declared that he would >> welcome "Mohometans" to Mount Vernon if they were "good workmen." >> >> In his seminal Letter on Toleration (1689), John Locke insisted that >> Muslims and all others who believed in God be tolerated in England. >> Campaigning for religious freedom in Virginia, Jefferson followed >> Locke, his idol, in demanding recognition of the religious rights of >> the "Mahamdan," the Jew and the "pagan." Supporting Jefferson was his >> old ally, Richard Henry Lee, who had made a motion in Congress on June >> 7, 1776, that the American colonies declare independence. "True >> freedom," Lee asserted, "embraces the Mahomitan and the Gentoo (Hindu) >> as well as the Christian religion." >> >> In his autobiography, Jefferson recounted with satisfaction that in >> the struggle to pass his landmark Bill for Establishing Religious >> Freedom (1786), the Virginia legislature "rejected by a great >> majority" an effort to limit the bill's scope "in proof that they >> meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and >> the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan." George Washington suggested >> a way for Muslims to "obtain proper relief" from a proposed Virginia >> bill, laying taxes to support Christian worship. On another occasion, >> the first president declared that he would welcome "Mohometans" to >> Mount Vernon if they were "good workmen" (see page 96). Officials in >> Massachusetts were equally insistent that their influential >> Constitution of 1780 afforded "the most ample liberty of conscience … >> to Deists, Mahometans, Jews and Christians," a point that Chief >> Justice Theophilus Parsons resoundingly affirmed in 1810. >> >> ....More influential observers had a different view of Muslims. In >> 1783, the president of Yale College, Ezra Stiles, cited a study >> showing that "Mohammadan" morals were "far superior to the Christian." >> Another New Englander believed that the "moral principles that were >> inculcated by their teachers had a happy tendency to render them good >> members of society." The reference here, as other commentators made >> clear, was to Islam's belief, which it shared with Christianity, in a >> "future state of rewards and punishments," a system of celestial >> carrots and sticks which the Founding generation considered necessary >> to guarantee good social conduct. >> >> Funny how you bastardize the thoughts and ideals of our founders while >> espousing support for your revisionist view of what you wanted them to >> be..... >> >> Go get an education then come back to the table. >> >> >> >> >> On May 17, 10:07 pm, Jim Willis <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > I’m just saying; this tortured torture argument is a lot of flummery >> > foisted as a faux pas targeting those who have dedicated their lives >> > to protecting us, the people. Cognizant, coherent citizens are engaged >> > in a debate where they question the methods of safety provided them. >> > When you think about it, it’s akin to the sperm complaining to the egg >> > about the condom. >> > >> > I’m not buying it, or even renting it by the mile. My personal policy >> > is pro-torture. I’ve taken it as an article of faith. And trust me; >> > I’ve given torture a great deal of reflection…after all, I have ex- >> > wives. >> > >> > But, and think about this; we are the lone superpower remaining on >> > this spinning orb and the best we can do is water sports. As John >> > Stossel would say, “give me a break”. I long for that ole time >> > torture. You know; the fire and brimstone, can I haaaaaave an amen, >> > drawing and quartering, the iron maiden dosee doe. Ah yes, good times. >> > >> > For all of you short bussers on the left and you middle of the road >> > Forrest Gumps, this gets pretty simple. You can even play along at >> > home. We are at war with a cult like pseudo-religion that has as its >> > sacrament the rape of children, the rape of women and the rape of >> > goats; just not in that order. >> > >> > How about it, friends, neighbors and countrymen? Think about it; we >> > are flogging ourselves in some sort of self flagellation because a few >> > pieces of excrement were made somewhat uncomfortable. >> > >> > This might surprise you limp wristed leftist Looney tunes but the >> > father of our country had definite ideals and inspirations in his >> > command. You might say he was the original motivational speaker. He >> > regularly whipped subordinates for insubordination and executed >> > deserters. He bucked up. He got the job done. And here’s the thing; >> > don’t try that civilized, the times have changed, we are more >> > enlightened flank attack on my soon to be recognized as a literary >> > masterpiece postulation. That ship has sailed Sally. >> > >> > Just because you Sheila’s don’t have the backbone or testicular >> > fortitude to put Abdulla’s head in a vice until he gives up what well >> > little Timmy is in doesn’t give you the right to question those of us >> > that will do the heavy lifting and put us in the dock. Better yet to >> > simply say thank-you and leave us to protecting your sorry ass. >> > >> > Yet, instead; you decry the methods that we stalwarts employ to allow >> > you to peacefully sleep at night in a cozy home filled with promising >> > offspring. How dare you! How dare you question the methods that we >> > apply to the protection of you and the ones you love? >> > >> > How sanctimonious you must be. To bitterly suffer the application of a >> > trying debate that stakes it flag to the mythical high moral ground in >> > only the abstract. When in, “dynamic realism” innocent people are >> > butchered while good men do nothing. >> > >> > Listen up you symbiotic simian stupidest scene stealers. All of the >> > theatrics, hand wringing aestivations hoping to stretch this debate >> > well nigh into the fall, one might presume that at some point the >> > adults will once again command the steering of this frog back into a >> > tadpole. This isn’t news. Hell yes we should torture. It should be >> > done quietly and not on the front page of the New York Slimes. Come to >> > think of it; my garage is pretty quiet. I’m just saying…. >> > Conservative Springfield Staff Writer >> > >> > On May 17, 2:06 pm, Hollywood <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > > KIT, >> > >> > > Best you can do under the circumstances? Lame, very lame. >> > >> > > On May 17, 11:18 am, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 10:40 AM, SgtUSMC <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >> > > > > I wonder who wrote that and was he fired for opposing the >> president's >> > > > > views? >> > >> > > > BeatDeadHorse.gif >> > > > 174KViewDownload- Hide quoted text - >> > >> > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >> > >> > - Show quoted text - >> >> >> >> -- Mark M. Kahle, , www.filacoffee.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
