jgg, Ohhh, we were not helping him to WIN, we were merely helping him to avoid DEFEAT. Well, that makes all the difference in the world.
On May 19, 3:33 pm, jgg1000a <[email protected]> wrote: > Our support to SH in the 80's was limited to proventing his defeat by > Iran. 95%+ of SH weapons came from the USSR or its satellites... A > majority of the rest came from France and Germany... > > On May 19, 3:35 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > In a way, it was, for our support of SH during the Iraq-Iran war. We > > tend to eliminate those who illustrate our political conscience. > > Panama. Cuba. El Salvador. USSR. etc. > > > On May 19, 1:35 pm, Hollywood <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > jgg, > > > > So, S.H's Iraq was NOT an immediate and dangerous threat that needed > > > to be removed? > > > > On May 19, 12:56 pm, jgg1000a <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Again, the Iraqi War was NOT principally about WMD (using your non > > > > UNSC definition)... > > > > > On May 18, 5:52 am, VT VirtualTruth <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > You really don;t read or pay attention to the news do you? > > > > > > You fools said the same things about WMD's > > > > > that mistake only cost 4000 US lives and maimed > > > > > only 30,000. > > > > > > When Republicans make mistakes Americans die. > > > > > Good track record you got going there. > > > > > > On May 17, 10:17 am, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Sean, > > > > > > > So, this is really what it boils down to, as I suspicioned. What > > > > > > you are > > > > > > really saying is, "I Hate Bush, But I Don't Know Why". > > > > > > > What transpired at Abu Gharib is not at all what transpired with > > > > > > enhanced > > > > > > interrogation techniques by the CIA. The Army has no mechanism > > > > > > other than > > > > > > the Army Field Manual to interrogate prisoners. Those individuals > > > > > > were > > > > > > prosecuted because they were outside of Army regulations. > > > > > > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 3:26 AM, VT VirtualTruth > > > > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > > If we tried the little guys for what happened at Abu Gharib > > > > > > > then the precedent has already been set for the ENTIRE > > > > > > > Bush Administration. > > > > > > > > I believe Nixon was also Impeached for his crimes > > > > > > > during the Vietnam war. > > > > > > > > Nixon resigned rather than face impeachment for his crimes > > > > > > > while in office, and Republicans pushed all out to impeach > > > > > > > Clinton while in office about a lie over a BJ. > > > > > > > > So both your reasons for calling me a traitor have both been > > > > > > > proven false based on previous precedent. > > > > > > > > You have nothing left to say, because you have run > > > > > > > out of realistic arguments. > > > > > > > > On May 16, 4:47 pm, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hey Sean!! > > > > > > > > > Actually, I thought my post was rather witty!! > > > > > > > > > In all honesty, you seem like a bright, intelligent, (I am > > > > > > > > assuming > > > > > > > younger > > > > > > > > than me) man. It is one thing to question our governments' > > > > > > > > policies, > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > quite another to jump on a traitorous bandwagon, accusing our > > > > > > > > President, > > > > > > > > (any President!) during a time of war, of war crimes. > > > > > > > > > I have nothing else to say on the subject. Based on all of the > > > > > > > information > > > > > > > > that has been released to date, I don't believe that we ever > > > > > > > > "tortured" > > > > > > > > anyone. That this is just a hyped up term used by far left > > > > > > > > extremists > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > are either uninformed, and/or have an Anti-American agenda. One > > > > > > > > or the > > > > > > > > other.... > > > > > > > > > Until such time as more information has been released, (which > > > > > > > > initially I > > > > > > > > was opposed to, but now, because the Obama Administration chose > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > release > > > > > > > > the several Memoranda by Bybee and Bradbury) I want to see > > > > > > > > everything > > > > > > > > released, including the documents from July 2004 that former > > > > > > > > Vice > > > > > > > President > > > > > > > > Cheney has requested be released. > > > > > > > > > Until such time, I can add nothing to the conversation.....I've > > > > > > > > said my > > > > > > > > piece, both here in PF, as well as that Den of Moonbats, > > > > > > > > Euwetopia. > > > > > > > > > On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 3:43 PM, VT VirtualTruth > > > > > > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > That was the best you could do? > > > > > > > > > > Keith you want to try again? > > > > > > > > > > On May 16, 1:38 pm, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 12:53 PM, VT Sean Lewis > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The shifting denial about torture. > > > > > > > > > > > > May 16, 2009 > > > > > > > > > > > Sean Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > Torture is just one more nail into the coffin > > > > > > > > > > > for the Republican Party. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheney is just trying to protect himself and > > > > > > > > > > > doing preemptive damage control. It is clear > > > > > > > > > > > the torture policy was his decision. Cheney > > > > > > > > > > > is hoping for another terror attack so he can > > > > > > > > > > > be vindicated the same way the entire GOP > > > > > > > > > > > party wants President Obama to fail so the > > > > > > > > > > > GOP policies can be vindicated. > > > > > > > > > > > > The water down spin on torture is that water > > > > > > > > > > > boarding is not torture. Dunking someones > > > > > > > > > > > head is hardly torture, it is like getting baptised! > > > > > > > > > > > The rough questioning was needed to get results! > > > > > > > > > > > > However a few things are being left out, 98 > > > > > > > > > > > dead prisoners, the torture did not work, and > > > > > > > > > > > torture is against the both US and International > > > > > > > > > > > law. > > > > > > > > > > > > If all the CIA was doing was 'questioning' prisoners > > > > > > > > > > > why was a doctor needed to be present? > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been questioned by the police, no doctor was > > > > > > > > > > > present. > > > > > > > > > > > > In previous questioning by the FBI, no doctor was present, > > > > > > > > > > > so what changed? > > > > > > > > > > > > What changed was there was now a chance that the prisoner > > > > > > > > > > > might die from the harsh interrogation. In fact 98 > > > > > > > > > > > prisoners > > > > > > > > > > > who were being held for 'questioning died. > > > > > > > >http://opendebateforum2.blogspot.com/2009/04/98-prisoners-died-in-us-. > > > > > > > > > .. > > > > > > > > > > > > This article had 623 footnotes verifying the deaths. > > > > > > > > > > >http://www.humanrightsfirst.info/pdf/06221-etn-hrf-dic-rep-web.pdf > > > > > > > > > > > I posted one of those footnotes at the end of this > > > > > > > > > > > article. > > > > > > > > > > > > The Torture Apologists want you to believe that water > > > > > > > > > > > boarding > > > > > > > > > > > is not dangerous, problem is water boarding wasn't the > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > harsh treatment the prisoners received. A point the > > > > > > > > > > > Torture > > > > > > > Apologist > > > > > > > > > > > conveniently do not bring up. Also if it wasn't torture > > > > > > > > > > > explain the 98 dead prisoners? > > > > > > > > > > > > Next comes the issue of why the prisoners were being > > > > > > > > > > > tortured > > > > > > > > > > > and what were the results of the torture. > > > > > > > > > > > > We were told that the torture was to protect Americans > > > > > > > > > > > from future > > > > > > > > > > > attack, and that valuable information came as a result of > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > torture. > > > > > > > > > > > This was after we were told that the US does not torture > > > > > > > > > > > by the > > > > > > > way. > > > > > > > > > > > > The truth is that the CIA was torturing prisoners. not to > > > > > > > > > > > protect > > > > > > > > > > > America or Americans, but to find a connection between > > > > > > > > > > > Iraq and > > > > > > > > > > > 9/11 or a connection between Iraq and Al qaeda. This was > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > give cover to the Bush Administration after no WMD's were > > > > > > > > > > > found > > > > > > > > > > > in Iraq. > > > > > > > > > > > > The torture how ever did not work, In fact it had the > > > > > > > > > > > opposite > > > > > > > effect. > > > > > > > > > > > Prisoners who were cooperating and freely giving valuable > > > > > > > > > > > Intel > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > Al qaeda without torture to the FBI, stopped cooperation > > > > > > > > > > > when the > > > > > > > > > > > CIA began torturing them about non existent connections > > > > > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > > > Iraq and 9/11 or Iraq and Al Qaeda. > > > > > > > >http://opendebateforum2.blogspot.com/2009/05/timeline-history-of-hars. > > > > > > > > > .. > > > > > > > >http://opendebateforum2.blogspot.com/2009/05/report-links-cia-to-mili. > > > > > > > > > .. > > > > > > > >http://opendebateforum2.blogspot.com/2009/05/harsh-interrogation-tech. > > > > > > > > > .. > > > > > > > > > > > > The legality of torture is, there is none. The Bush > > > > > > > > > > > Administration > > > > > > > > > > > knew > > > > > > > > > > > this so in an effort to do a work around, the Bush > > > > > > > > > > > Administration > > > > > > > > > > > redefined the status of the prisoners to a classification > > > > > > > > > > > the Bush > > > > > > > > > > > Administration > > > > > > > > > > > deemed outside of the Geneva Convention. > > > > > > > > > > > > Next came the justification of 'Harsh Interrogation' > > > > > > > > > > > because of the > > > > > > > > > > > 'ticking > > > > > > > > > > > time bomb' scenario. The White House ordered White House > > > > > > > > > > > attorneys > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > write briefs not only saying that harsh interrogation was > > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > torture, > > > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > instances when harsh interrogation was prudent and > > > > > > > > > > > advised. > > > > > > > > > > > > Two problems with this, the need for a doctor during > > > > > > > > > > > 'questioning' > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > 98 dead prisoners, also the questioning of the prisoners > > > > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > nothing > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > do with an imminent threat that was time sensitive. It > > > > > > > > > > > was about > > > > > > > > > > > getting > > > > > > > > > > > back fill Intel to justify the Iraq invasion. > > > > > > > > > > > > Currently the Torture Apologists are > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
