The distinction Holly, is that the United States invaded their land, because the Afghanistan (lack of) government allowed for training camps to train homicidal murderers to fly jet airliners into our skyscrapers, construct dirty bombs, and in general, to destroy yours and my way of life, as compared to the Soviets, who invaded Afghanistan as a part of world domination and a desire to spread Soviet style communism throughout the world.
A major distinction. On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Hollywood <[email protected]>wrote: > > jgg, > > Uh yeah, they changed from killing Russians invading their land to > killing Americans & Brits invading their land. Thought I had explained > that. > > On May 21, 9:54 am, jgg1000a <[email protected]> wrote: > > Or maybe it depends on the circumstance... Like how OBL and AQ > > changed over the years... Another example is supporting Stalin in > > 1942-45 and fighting him from 1948-1953... Why the change??? Simple > > Stalin's actions post WWII... > > > > On May 21, 10:26 am, Hollywood <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > jgg, > > > > > WHAT arguement of "because we helped S.H. we are responsible for the > > > end result?" Look at my posts, what I ACTUALLY said. Where did I say > > > any such thing? > > > OF course our political policy is based on what is convient for us at > > > the moment. One decade Osama Bin Laden is a "deeply religious freedom > > > fighter" another decade the same man is a "murdering Muslim > > > terrorist". All depends on wheter he's killing Russians or Brits and > > > Americans. Duuuuuuh. > > > > > On May 20, 10:31 am, jgg1000a <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Another of your straw-men Hollywood... Especially as I never have > > > > been of the attitude ""your either for us or against us"... Neither > > > > was Bush for that matter... Now the LW anti-war fringe WAS and IS... > > > > Hence Pelosi's new dance step... > > > > > > Now my point with Russia IS and was, geopolitical alliance normally > > > > are temporary based on convenience... As was our help to Saddam, > > > > our interest was not to let either Iraq nor Iran win... And that > > > > policy drove our actions... Second, the arms we supplied helped us > > > > and the Russians defeat Hitler --- the question here is the refusal > > > > of Russia to WITHDRAWAL to its pre war borders WAS a consequence of > > > > that win... This included incorporating the Baltic and much of > Poland > > > > into USSR... > > > > > > ANd the argument used with with Saddam is BECAUSE we helped him, WE > > > > are responsible for the end result... Applying that logic to WWII, > > > > we were responsible for 40 years of repression in Eastern Europe... > > > > Now I reject that line of reasoning in the cases of Russia during WWI > > > > and Saddam post 1987... The issue here do you also reject the > > > > reasoning??? If so the issue of our limited help to Saddam in the > > > > 80's is a none issue... If you accept that logic, then you logically > > > > must hold we are guilty of repressing Eastern Europe for 40 years... > > > > > > On May 20, 10:16 am, Hollywood <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > jgg, > > > > > > > NOW you want to resign the black/white world of "your either for us > or > > > > > against us" George Bush? > > > > > OH, we didn't want Russia it win against Germany, we only wanted to > > > > > help them avoid defeat? When Russian tanks were rumbling thru the > > > > > street of Berlin, hundreds of miles west of their borders, we were > > > > > merely helping them avoid defeat and destruction? Read a history > book, > > > > > Russia help US to avoid defeat in Europe. > > > > > > > On May 20, 8:55 am, jgg1000a <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Yes Hollywood, in the grown-up game of geopolitics that is a > > > > > > significant difference... In your Ivory Tower of perfection, > > > > > > Ideology must remain pure by using only "moral" methods... In > WWII, > > > > > > we allied with a Totalitarian tyrant not quite as dangerous as > Hitler, > > > > > > Stalin, to beat Hitler... We supplied him arms so he would not > be > > > > > > defeated... > > > > > > > > And Stalin used them to take over Eastern Europe after the war... > By > > > > > > your standards, we are responsible for Stalin post war, even > though he > > > > > > stopped being an ally in 1945... Problem is, that is not how > the > > > > > > world works... > > > > > > > > On May 19, 7:31 pm, Hollywood <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > jgg, > > > > > > > > > Ohhh, we were not helping him to WIN, we were merely helping > him to > > > > > > > avoid DEFEAT. > > > > > > > Well, that makes all the difference in the world. > > > > > > > > > On May 19, 3:33 pm, jgg1000a <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Our support to SH in the 80's was limited to proventing his > defeat by > > > > > > > > Iran. 95%+ of SH weapons came from the USSR or its > satellites... A > > > > > > > > majority of the rest came from France and Germany... > > > > > > > > > > On May 19, 3:35 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > In a way, it was, for our support of SH during the > Iraq-Iran war. We > > > > > > > > > tend to eliminate those who illustrate our political > conscience. > > > > > > > > > Panama. Cuba. El Salvador. USSR. etc. > > > > > > > > > > > On May 19, 1:35 pm, Hollywood <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > jgg, > > > > > > > > > > > > So, S.H's Iraq was NOT an immediate and dangerous threat > that needed > > > > > > > > > > to be removed? > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 19, 12:56 pm, jgg1000a <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, the Iraqi War was NOT principally about WMD > (using your non > > > > > > > > > > > UNSC definition)... > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 18, 5:52 am, VT VirtualTruth < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You really don;t read or pay attention to the news do > you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You fools said the same things about WMD's > > > > > > > > > > > > that mistake only cost 4000 US lives and maimed > > > > > > > > > > > > only 30,000. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When Republicans make mistakes Americans die. > > > > > > > > > > > > Good track record you got going there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 17, 10:17 am, Keith In Tampa < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sean, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, this is really what it boils down to, as I > suspicioned. What you are > > > > > > > > > > > > > really saying is, "I Hate Bush, But I Don't Know > Why". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What transpired at Abu Gharib is not at all what > transpired with enhanced > > > > > > > > > > > > > interrogation techniques by the CIA. The Army has > no mechanism other than > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Army Field Manual to interrogate prisoners. > Those individuals were > > > > > > > > > > > > > prosecuted because they were outside of Army > regulations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 3:26 AM, VT VirtualTruth > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we tried the little guys for what happened at > Abu Gharib > > > > > > > > > > > > > > then the precedent has already been set for the > ENTIRE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bush Administration. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe Nixon was also Impeached for his crimes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > during the Vietnam war. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nixon resigned rather than face impeachment for > his crimes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > while in office, and Republicans pushed all out > to impeach > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Clinton while in office about a lie over a BJ. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So both your reasons for calling me a traitor > have both been > > > > > > > > > > > > > > proven false based on previous precedent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have nothing left to say, because you have > run > > > > > > > > > > > > > > out of realistic arguments. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 16, 4:47 pm, Keith In Tampa < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey Sean!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I thought my post was rather witty!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In all honesty, you seem like a bright, > intelligent, (I am assuming > > > > > > > > > > > > > > younger > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > than me) man. It is one thing to question our > governments' policies, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quite another to jump on a traitorous > bandwagon, accusing our President, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (any President!) during a time of war, of war > crimes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have nothing else to say on the subject. > Based on all of the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > information > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that has been released to date, I don't believe > that we ever "tortured" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anyone. That this is just a hyped up term used > by far left extremists > > > > > > > > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are either uninformed, and/or have an > Anti-American agenda. One or the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > other.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Until such time as more information has been > released, (which initially I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was opposed to, but now, because the Obama > Administration chose to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > release > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the several Memoranda by Bybee and Bradbury) I > want to see everything > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > released, including the documents from July > 2004 that former Vice > > > > > > > > > > > > > > President > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheney has requested be released. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Until such time, I can add nothing to the > conversation.....I've said my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > piece, both here in PF, as well as that Den of > Moonbats, Euwetopia. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 3:43 PM, VT > VirtualTruth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was the best you could do? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Keith you want to try again? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 16, 1:38 pm, Keith In Tampa < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 12:53 PM, VT Sean > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The shifting denial about torture. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > May 16, 2009 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sean Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Torture is just one more nail into the > coffin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for the Republican Party. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheney is just trying to protect himself > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > doing preemptive damage control. It is > clear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the torture policy was his decision. > Cheney > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is hoping for another terror attack so he > can > > > > ... > > > > read more ยป- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
