France? Isn't that the country where the kids went on vacation in August and a heat wave hit and 10,0000 elderly folks died? I guess their socialized medicine almost worked...give it another chance. We have a form of socialized medicine. It is called Medicare. When we were sold on it we were told by the "experts" that by this time we could expect that it would cost $1.2 billion. So, thirty years or so later, how are we doing? What? The cost is $120 billion? Well, it is just a slight miscalculation right? Not to worry, the government will handle it, like everything else they handle. I lived in a very expensive country. Ten years ago it cost $120 for a pair of Levi jeans, $30 for a medium cheese pizza at Pizza Hut. The de facto minimum wage was about $25 per hour though. The government there did not set minimum wage standards. They also did not get involved with medical care, so there were not a lot of rules and regulations and paperwork to file. They simply required that all people have a health insurance policy and that it would cover everything, including alternative health care treatments. Of course your premiums would be low if you lived a healthy life style and your co-pay was high. If you were unable to pay for your insurance, the local government would pay the premiums for you. That's it. That country has the best health care in the world. When Gorbachev needed to be cared for, he went there. So you can imagine how very expensive their health care is compared to ours right? It is 70% of what we pay. Why? Because, for the most part, government stays the hell out of the business of health care. It also stays the hell out of the business of the people it represents. Wouldn't it be nice if ours did the same? But we have people who want the government to be involved in every aspect of their lives or other people's lives. When will we ever learn?
On Jun 29, 2:12 pm, Frederick The Moderate <[email protected]> wrote: > From personal experience: France, Germany (by far!). Vicariously from > I've heard from friends who live there, Spain. I also lived in the > Ukraine for a short while and I would say that (shamefully) they are > close to the US in ER and all non-critical / complex care. > > On Jun 29, 1:59 pm, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > What Nation-State is it that you believe has more quality health care, or a > > superior health care system than the United States?? > > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 2:17 PM, Frederick The Moderate < > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > I can't stand Nancy Pelosi. I'm not happy with the cap & trade bill. I > > > want healthcare legislation and I want single payor. I have lived in > > > countries that have much lower standards of living and yet, much > > > better healthcare than America. So I'm all for that. > > > But like you say, this is a far cry from transparency. > > > > On Jun 29, 10:35 am, Travis <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > From: *Travis* > > > > Date: Mon, Jun 29, 2009 > > > > Subject: Pelosi Won't Give Public a Chance to Review Text of > > > > Health-Care > > > > Bill Before House Votes on It. > > > > > Of course not...that would be too democratic for the arrogant bitch! > > > > > B > > > > >http://www.kuna.net.kw/NewsAgenciesPublicSite/ArticleDetails.aspx?id=... > > > > > Pelosi Won't Give Public a Week to Review Text of Health-Care Bill > > > > Before > > > > House Votes on It > > > > Monday, June 29, 2009 > > > > By Marie Magleby and Monica Gabriel > > > > > *(CNSNews.com) *- House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D.-Calif.) will not give > > > the > > > > public a week to review the final text of a health-care reform bill > > > before > > > > it is voted on later this year. > > > > > Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D.-Nev.) has also declined to commit > > > to > > > > giving the public a week to read and consider the final health-care > > > > bill. > > > > > At her press briefing on Thursday, Pelosi was asked whether the > > > health-care > > > > bill would be handled differently than the stimulus bill, which came up > > > in > > > > February. The 1,071-page final text of that bill was posted on the House > > > > Appropriations Committee’s Web site late on a Thursday night and then > > > voted > > > > on the next day. > > > > > “When the stimulus bill came out earlier this year, members and citizens > > > had > > > > less than two days to review the final version that came out of the > > > > conference committee before it was voted on,” CNSNews.com asked Pelosi > > > > on > > > > Thursday. “Will you commit to giving Americans at least a week to review > > > the > > > > full conference version of the health care bill before it is voted on? > > > And > > > > also will you commit to submitting the final version to the CBO > > > > [Congressional Budget Office] so that they can report the cost to the > > > > public?” > > > > > Pelosi would not commit to giving the public a week to review the bill, > > > and > > > > did not respond to the question of having the CBO report on the cost of > > > the > > > > final bill. > > > > > “Well, we will abide by the regular order. You heard the question,” she > > > > said. “It was about having the health care bill out there a week in > > > advance. > > > > We will have the regular order in terms of the appropriate amount of > > > time, > > > > 48 hours in advance for amendments before you file the bill, another day > > > > before you can take up the bill. > > > > > “But this bill is something that has been unfolding before the American > > > > people for a long time now. The areas of controversy are well known,” > > > said > > > > Pelosi. > > > > > “The issue of a public option is probably the most significant debate > > > that > > > > we will have in the House on the legislation, as I see it now. But the > > > bill > > > > will come forth under the regular order, and that's why the three > > > chairmen > > > > put out the draft now,” she said. “They put out some principles earlier > > > on. > > > > The President put out his principles. We had a month before the Memorial > > > Day > > > > break for everyone to see what was happening there to take ideas from > > > > our > > > > members. > > > > > “So it was in the public domain, but not as a bill,” said Pelosi, > > > continuing > > > > to respond to the question of whether she would give the public a week > > > > to > > > > review the final bill. “Now they have put out this draft which has been > > > well > > > > received, and I'm very proud of the work. It's a well managed approach > > > > to > > > > how we go forward. And when we are ready with a draft then we will put > > > that > > > > forth, but as I say, it will be under the regular order.” > > > > > The three House committees working on the health-care plan have released > > > > what they call a “discussion draft” of the legislation. It is 850 pages > > > > long. > > > > > The Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee has produced > > > its > > > > own 615-page draft that is missing key sections, including the section > > > that > > > > would explain the “public option”—or government-run health insurance > > > > organization. > > > > > After the House and Senate actually pass bills, the two versions of the > > > > legislation will go to a House-Senate conference committee where they > > > will > > > > be reconciled and where entirely new provisions can be added. The final > > > > version of the bill that emerges from this conference committee will be > > > > voted on by both houses, and if passed, sent to the president for his > > > > signature before it can become law. > > > > > This final bill is likely to be well over 1,000 pages long and will > > > include > > > > mandates and regulations that could permanently transform the U.S. > > > > health > > > > care system. > > > > > Like Pelosi, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid also said last week that > > > he > > > > would not commit to giving the public a week to review the final text of > > > the > > > > health-care bill. > > > > > “We are going to follow the rules and do the best we can so that the new > > > > rules we have for transparency will be effective,” Reid said at his own > > > > Thursday news briefing when asked about giving the public a week to read > > > the > > > > final health-care bill. > > > > > “We have been putting things online. We’re doing so much more than we > > > > did > > > > just a year or two ago, so I think there’s no secrets, we try to be as > > > > upfront as we can, give everyone as much opportunity as we can to move > > > > forward,” he said. > > > > > House and Senate rules differ slightly, but basically the House allows a > > > > vote three calendar days after the conference committee’s report is > > > posted > > > > and the Senate allows a vote after 48 hours. > > > > > House Rule XIII, section 4. (a)(1), says: “. . . it shall not be in > > > > order > > > to > > > > consider in the House a measure or matter reported by a committee until > > > the > > > > third calendar day (excluding Saturdays, Sundays, or legal holidays > > > except > > > > when the House is in session on such a day) on which each report of a > > > > committee on that measure or matter has been available to Members, > > > > Delegates, and the Resident Commissioner.” > > > > > Senate rules allow a voted 48 hours after the conference committee > > > version > > > > of the bill has been posted. > > > > > Senate Rule XXVIII, Section 9. (a)(1) says: “It shall not be in order to > > > > vote on the adoption of a report of a committee of conference unless > > > > such > > > > report has been available to Members and to the general public for at > > > least > > > > 48 hours before such vote.” > > > > > In February, lawmakers had less than 48 hours to review the final > > > conference > > > > report on the economic stimulus bill before voting for it. > > > > > President Obama is pushing for both houses of Congress to vote on > > > > health-care legislation before they take a recess in August. He wants > > > > the > > > > bill on his desk by October. Republicans argue that such a sweeping > > > reform > > > > should not be rushed. > > > > > “This is much more serious than the rushed and ill-conceived stimulus > > > > legislation,” Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) said last week. “If we fail to > > > > do > > > > this the right way in order to simply check the health reform box, we > > > will > > > > all suffer the consequences for the rest of our lives.” > > > > > One should either write ruthlessly what one believes to be the truth, or > > > > else shut up. -- Arthur Koestler > > > > > __,_._,___ > > > > > -- > > > > *~@):~{> > > > > > -- > > > > *~@):~{>- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
