Right okay Richard. Our healthcare system is just peachy. Drinking a bit of the kool-aid are you?
On Jun 30, 8:59 am, RICHARD BROWN <[email protected]> wrote: > France? Isn't that the country where the kids went on vacation in > August and a heat wave hit and 10,0000 elderly folks died? I guess > their socialized medicine almost worked...give it another chance. We > have a form of socialized medicine. It is called Medicare. When we > were sold on it we were told by the "experts" that by this time we > could expect that it would cost $1.2 billion. So, thirty years or so > later, how are we doing? What? The cost is $120 billion? Well, it > is just a slight miscalculation right? Not to worry, the government > will handle it, like everything else they handle. > I lived in a very expensive country. Ten years ago it cost $120 for a > pair of Levi jeans, $30 for a medium cheese pizza at Pizza Hut. The > de facto minimum wage was about $25 per hour though. The government > there did not set minimum wage standards. They also did not get > involved with medical care, so there were not a lot of rules and > regulations and paperwork to file. They simply required that all > people have a health insurance policy and that it would cover > everything, including alternative health care treatments. Of course > your premiums would be low if you lived a healthy life style and your > co-pay was high. If you were unable to pay for your insurance, the > local government would pay the premiums for you. That's it. That > country has the best health care in the world. When Gorbachev needed > to be cared for, he went there. So you can imagine how very expensive > their health care is compared to ours right? It is 70% of what we > pay. Why? Because, for the most part, government stays the hell out > of the business of health care. It also stays the hell out of the > business of the people it represents. Wouldn't it be nice if ours did > the same? But we have people who want the government to be involved > in every aspect of their lives or other people's lives. When will we > ever learn? > > On Jun 29, 2:12 pm, Frederick The Moderate > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > From personal experience: France, Germany (by far!). Vicariously from > > I've heard from friends who live there, Spain. I also lived in the > > Ukraine for a short while and I would say that (shamefully) they are > > close to the US in ER and all non-critical / complex care. > > > On Jun 29, 1:59 pm, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > What Nation-State is it that you believe has more quality health care, or > > > a > > > superior health care system than the United States?? > > > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 2:17 PM, Frederick The Moderate < > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I can't stand Nancy Pelosi. I'm not happy with the cap & trade bill. I > > > > want healthcare legislation and I want single payor. I have lived in > > > > countries that have much lower standards of living and yet, much > > > > better healthcare than America. So I'm all for that. > > > > But like you say, this is a far cry from transparency. > > > > > On Jun 29, 10:35 am, Travis <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > From: *Travis* > > > > > Date: Mon, Jun 29, 2009 > > > > > Subject: Pelosi Won't Give Public a Chance to Review Text of > > > > > Health-Care > > > > > Bill Before House Votes on It. > > > > > > Of course not...that would be too democratic for the arrogant bitch! > > > > > > B > > > > > >http://www.kuna.net.kw/NewsAgenciesPublicSite/ArticleDetails.aspx?id=... > > > > > > Pelosi Won't Give Public a Week to Review Text of Health-Care Bill > > > > > Before > > > > > House Votes on It > > > > > Monday, June 29, 2009 > > > > > By Marie Magleby and Monica Gabriel > > > > > > *(CNSNews.com) *- House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D.-Calif.) will not give > > > > the > > > > > public a week to review the final text of a health-care reform bill > > > > before > > > > > it is voted on later this year. > > > > > > Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D.-Nev.) has also declined to > > > > > commit > > > > to > > > > > giving the public a week to read and consider the final health-care > > > > > bill. > > > > > > At her press briefing on Thursday, Pelosi was asked whether the > > > > health-care > > > > > bill would be handled differently than the stimulus bill, which came > > > > > up > > > > in > > > > > February. The 1,071-page final text of that bill was posted on the > > > > > House > > > > > Appropriations Committee’s Web site late on a Thursday night and then > > > > voted > > > > > on the next day. > > > > > > “When the stimulus bill came out earlier this year, members and > > > > > citizens > > > > had > > > > > less than two days to review the final version that came out of the > > > > > conference committee before it was voted on,” CNSNews.com asked > > > > > Pelosi on > > > > > Thursday. “Will you commit to giving Americans at least a week to > > > > > review > > > > the > > > > > full conference version of the health care bill before it is voted on? > > > > And > > > > > also will you commit to submitting the final version to the CBO > > > > > [Congressional Budget Office] so that they can report the cost to the > > > > > public?” > > > > > > Pelosi would not commit to giving the public a week to review the > > > > > bill, > > > > and > > > > > did not respond to the question of having the CBO report on the cost > > > > > of > > > > the > > > > > final bill. > > > > > > “Well, we will abide by the regular order. You heard the question,” > > > > > she > > > > > said. “It was about having the health care bill out there a week in > > > > advance. > > > > > We will have the regular order in terms of the appropriate amount of > > > > time, > > > > > 48 hours in advance for amendments before you file the bill, another > > > > > day > > > > > before you can take up the bill. > > > > > > “But this bill is something that has been unfolding before the > > > > > American > > > > > people for a long time now. The areas of controversy are well known,” > > > > said > > > > > Pelosi. > > > > > > “The issue of a public option is probably the most significant debate > > > > that > > > > > we will have in the House on the legislation, as I see it now. But the > > > > bill > > > > > will come forth under the regular order, and that's why the three > > > > chairmen > > > > > put out the draft now,” she said. “They put out some principles > > > > > earlier > > > > on. > > > > > The President put out his principles. We had a month before the > > > > > Memorial > > > > Day > > > > > break for everyone to see what was happening there to take ideas from > > > > > our > > > > > members. > > > > > > “So it was in the public domain, but not as a bill,” said Pelosi, > > > > continuing > > > > > to respond to the question of whether she would give the public a > > > > > week to > > > > > review the final bill. “Now they have put out this draft which has > > > > > been > > > > well > > > > > received, and I'm very proud of the work. It's a well managed > > > > > approach to > > > > > how we go forward. And when we are ready with a draft then we will put > > > > that > > > > > forth, but as I say, it will be under the regular order.” > > > > > > The three House committees working on the health-care plan have > > > > > released > > > > > what they call a “discussion draft” of the legislation. It is 850 > > > > > pages > > > > > long. > > > > > > The Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee has > > > > > produced > > > > its > > > > > own 615-page draft that is missing key sections, including the section > > > > that > > > > > would explain the “public option”—or government-run health insurance > > > > > organization. > > > > > > After the House and Senate actually pass bills, the two versions of > > > > > the > > > > > legislation will go to a House-Senate conference committee where they > > > > will > > > > > be reconciled and where entirely new provisions can be added. The > > > > > final > > > > > version of the bill that emerges from this conference committee will > > > > > be > > > > > voted on by both houses, and if passed, sent to the president for his > > > > > signature before it can become law. > > > > > > This final bill is likely to be well over 1,000 pages long and will > > > > include > > > > > mandates and regulations that could permanently transform the U.S. > > > > > health > > > > > care system. > > > > > > Like Pelosi, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid also said last week > > > > > that > > > > he > > > > > would not commit to giving the public a week to review the final text > > > > > of > > > > the > > > > > health-care bill. > > > > > > “We are going to follow the rules and do the best we can so that the > > > > > new > > > > > rules we have for transparency will be effective,” Reid said at his > > > > > own > > > > > Thursday news briefing when asked about giving the public a week to > > > > > read > > > > the > > > > > final health-care bill. > > > > > > “We have been putting things online. We’re doing so much more than we > > > > > did > > > > > just a year or two ago, so I think there’s no secrets, we try to be as > > > > > upfront as we can, give everyone as much opportunity as we can to move > > > > > forward,” he said. > > > > > > House and Senate rules differ slightly, but basically the House > > > > > allows a > > > > > vote three calendar days after the conference committee’s report is > > > > posted > > > > > and the Senate allows a vote after 48 hours. > > > > > > House Rule XIII, section 4. (a)(1), says: “. . . it shall not be in > > > > > order > > > > to > > > > > consider in the House a measure or matter reported by a committee > > > > > until > > > > the > > > > > third calendar day (excluding Saturdays, Sundays, or legal holidays > > > > except > > > > > when the House is in session on such a day) on which each report of a > > > > > committee on that measure or matter has been available to Members, > > > > > Delegates, and the Resident Commissioner.” > > > > > > Senate rules allow a voted 48 hours after the conference committee > > > > version > > > > > of the bill has been posted. > > > > > > Senate Rule XXVIII, Section 9. (a)(1) says: “It shall not be in order > > > > > to > > > > > vote on the adoption of a report of a committee of conference unless > > > > > such > > > > > report has been available to Members and to the general public for at > > > > least > > > > > 48 hours before such vote.” > > > > > > In > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
