What the hell are you talking about Mark? Obama could pull all troops out of Iraq immediately, escalate the war or do nothing at all. How is what goes on there now Bush's responsibility. By that logic, the entire Viet Nam war is on JFK's head. And BTW, although Republicans controlled congress when we went into Iraq, almost ALL of the Dems voted for the action as well. Each of their votes counts just as much as each of the Republican votes.
As to Afghanistan, it is a primitive area of the world without a national government, as we commonly define one. We are trying to train pigs to dance the ballet. On Mar 17, 4:26 pm, Mark <markmka...@gmail.com> wrote: > Now, Now Zeb. You are of course welcome to address any political issue you > wish. You are welcome to address someones political views as well. > > You must admit though that the agreement to shut down (and in what manner) > the war in Iraq was signed under Bush. He DOES therefore bear the burden in > or out of office as the war was (once again) discretionary and in the eyes > of the Republican controlled congress and their voluminous report, > unnecessary, and poorly executed with all purported reasons for waging it > based on faulty and or fabricated intel. > > Now before you attack me on this you must know that I am merely > quoting empirical reports (Us Senate intelligence report: Sept 2006) > > As to Afghanistan... No western power has ever won there.. why even try. > Just napalm the poppy farms and cut off their income... but to paraphrase GW > "what about the poor farmers" ?? It seems "0" is right in line with these > thoughts as he persecutes the war anywhere the Poppies aren't. > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 2:01 PM, Zebnick <zebn...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I need to address whatever the fuck I feel like addressing. And if I > > feel like highlighting VT's preposterous obsession with blaming > > everything on Bush, which he did in this thread, or your goofy, self- > > serving "interpretations" of what other people mean, I'll do it, > > whether you decide to bore the forum to death or not. > > > On Mar 17, 11:20 am, Hollywood <jims29...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Zeb, > > > > Ya' need to focus and try to deal with the subject at hand. I know the > > > AADD probably makes that tough, but just do your best. The subject is > > > Afghanistan and comparisons to Vietnam, not Sean's life or YOUR "goofy > > > interpretation" of it. > > > > Does is occur to you I don't give the slightest fuck what you think > > > boring? > > > > On Mar 17, 10:04 am, Zebnick <zebn...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > I'm saying that VT's eternal attempts to blame everything in the world > > > > and his failed life on Bush are boring. And your goofy interpretations > > > > of what people mean to say are also boring. > > > > > On Mar 17, 9:12 am, Hollywood <jims29...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > Zeb, > > > > > > What? We HAVEN'T been in Afghanistan for 9 nine years, longer than > > the > > > > > fighting in WWI, WWII and Korea combined? > > > > > Are you saying that is not true or are you saying that the truth > > bores > > > > > you? > > > > > > On Mar 17, 8:05 am, Zebnick <zebn...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > You're a one trick pony. Get a new act. You're boring. > > > > > > > On Mar 16, 11:03 pm, VT Sean Lewis <thevirtualtr...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > We have been at war for 9 years in Afghanistan, if we lose it > > will be > > > > > > > because of the incompetence of Bush. > > > > > > > > On Mar 16, 10:42 pm, Travis <baconl...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=36041 > > > > > > > > > *Will Congress Lose Afghanistan Like It Lost Vietnam? * > > > > > > > > > *by Phillip Jennings * > > > > > > > > > 03/16/2010 > > > > > > > > > As you prepare for your imminent deployment to Afghanistan, I > > guess it’s > > > > > > > > inevitable that I’m thinking of that time forty five years ago > > that I > > > > > > > > prepared for my deployment to Vietnam as a young lieutenant of > > Marines. > > > > > > > > We’ve talked about the similarities in our respective wars, but > > there’s a > > > > > > > > lot more I could say. The concurrent publication of my > > *Politically > > > > > > > > Incorrect Guide to the Vietnam > > > > > > > > War< > >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1596985674?ie=UTF8&tag=humaneventson...> > > > > > > > > * has sharpened our discussions and my ability to comment on > > your questions. > > > > > > > > > First, it is critically important for Americans to understand > > the true > > > > > > > > history of our involvement. Most important is the fact that > > the U.S. > > > > > > > > military fought brilliantly and defeated the Communist > > aggressors in > > > > > > > > Vietnam. Yes, that’s right. We won the war. And then we saw > > the Congress > > > > > > > > of the United States throw away that victory by abrogating our > > obligations > > > > > > > > to continue support of the South Vietnamese. > > > > > > > > > Why is that so important? Simply because that fact illuminates > > the only way > > > > > > > > we can similarly lose in Afghanistan. You will not be defeated > > on the > > > > > > > > battlefield. Of that, there is no question. > > > > > > > > > But, as in Vietnam, the administration has all but eliminated > > the phrase > > > > > > > > “win the war” from its rhetoric about the conflict. As the > > administrations > > > > > > > > prior to President Nixon did in the Vietnam War, the Obama > > administration > > > > > > > > will continue to confuse and dissemble, not trusting the > > American people’s > > > > > > > > wisdom, will and judgment. > > > > > > > > > The Obama team is -- like the Johnson administration did so > > often -- > > > > > > > > debating the very definition of winning and even question that > > possibility. > > > > > > > > > However, although there are complicated and sometimes > > conflicting elements > > > > > > > > of the war in Afghanistan, the fact is that America (and the > > West) cannot > > > > > > > > abandon that part of the world to hundreds of thousands if not > > millions of > > > > > > > > West-hating combatants who will have access to increasingly > > destructive > > > > > > > > weapons, recruits and, yes, atomic weapons. Some of the latter > > are already > > > > > > > > in place in Pakistan, a nation whose future is very much at > > risk. > > > > > > > > > We are not in a war against Islam. But we are at war with an > > Islam-derived > > > > > > > > ideology and – if we’re truthful about it -- not just the > > terrorists but the > > > > > > > > nations that finance, arm and comprehensively support them. And > > -- facts are > > > > > > > > what they are -- those nations and terrorist groups are almost > > without > > > > > > > > exception, Islamic. > > > > > > > > > The terrorists and the terrorist-sponsoring nations believe > > that a > > > > > > > > non-conventional war can be fought successfully against the > > greatest > > > > > > > > military force ever assembled. And why wouldn’t they believe > > that, given the > > > > > > > > timid and hesitant proclamations coming out of Washington? > > > > > > > > > The recently deceased leftist ‘intellectual’ Howard Zinn, in > > his *People’s > > > > > > > > History of the United States*, begins the chapter on the > > Vietnam War thusly: > > > > > > > > “From 1964 to 1972, the wealthiest and most powerful nation in > > the history > > > > > > > > of the world made a maximum military effort, with everything > > short of atomic > > > > > > > > bombs, to defeat a nationalist revolutionary movement in a > > tiny, peasant > > > > > > > > county -- and failed.” The undeniable truth is that the U.S. > > used a faulty > > > > > > > > strategy far short of a maximum effort and succeeded > > overwhelmingly. > > > > > > > > > The considerable gap between those two statements -- failure > > and success -- > > > > > > > > is important and that’s why I wrote the book. And that’s why > > the American > > > > > > > > people need to know what happened between the end of 1972 > > (really early 1973 > > > > > > > > when the North Vietnamese surrendered) and 1975 when South > > Vietnam was lost. > > > > > > > > We cannot let it happen again. > > > > > > > > > I recently read a brilliant book by David Kilcullen, *The > > Accidental > > > > > > > > Guerrilla; Fighting Small Wars in the Midst of a Big One*. I > > hope you will > > > > > > > > have a chance to read it. In it, he outlines the “Islamic Way > > of War.” > > > > > > > > > Simply put, the basics are “terrorism against the population, > > subversion, > > > > > > > > economic warfare (there is no doubt that America fights > > expensive wars and > > > > > > > > even we have practical limits), propaganda, and hit and run > > tactics.” He > > > > > > > > also quotes the Chinese ‘rules of conventional war’ which calls > > for combat > > > > > > > > by electronic, diplomatic, cyber, terrorist, political, > > economic and > > > > > > > > propaganda means. Both methods (completely taken from the North > > > > > > > > Vietnamese/Communist playbook, although updated) are designed > > to overload, > > > > > > > > deceive, and exhaust the United States. Kilcullen also restates > > the first > > > > > > > > rule of non-conventional warfare -- there are no rules. > > > > > > > > > What a discomforting paradox the U.S. finds itself in. In the > > first half of > > > > > > > > the past century we sent our troops abroad praying that they > > had the > > > > > > > > wherewithal, courage and stamina to conquer our enemies. Now > > our troops > > > > > > > > leave our shores praying that those left at home can find the > > courage and > > > > > > > > stamina to support their almost certain battlefield successes. > > > > > > > > > So I hope that in some small way my book can help alert > > Americans to the > > > > > > > > true path of defeat. That it can alert them to the only way our > > enemies can > > > > > > > > hope to succeed against us -- the loss of heart, determination > > to do what’s > > > > > > > > right and necessary, and the failure of leadership such as that > > which > > > > > > > > resulted in the shameful forfeiture of blood-won victory in > > Vietnam. > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > *Phillip Jennings served in Vietnam with the United States > > Marine Corps, > > > > > > > > flying helicopters, and in Laos as a pilot for Air America. He > > is the author > > > > > > > > of the critically acclaimed comic novels Nam-A-Rama and Goodbye > > Mexico, and > > > > > > > > won the Pirate** **s Alley Faulkner Society first prize for > > fiction with his > > > > > > > > short story, ** **Train Wreck in a Small Town.** ** A > > successful > > > > > > > > entrepreneur, he is currently CEO of Molecular Resonance > > Corporation, which > > > > > > > > is developing technology to detect and disarm > > ... > > read more » -- Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
