hi mike..... nominal9 On Oct 16, 10:03 am, "mike [ proud to be a liberal ] 532 !" <[email protected]> wrote: > i do not believe in organized religion or "the Church" i believe they > are inventions of men to control other men ! > > On Oct 16, 8:12 am, MJ <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > 3 Reasons Why You Can’t Trust a Christian or a Jewby Allan Stevo"Whoever > > comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, > > brothers and sisters, yes, and even life itself, cannot be my disciple." > > Where’s this quote come from? A jihadist manual on terror? One of the > > Surahs of the Koran? Maybe Mao’s little red book? Was it spoken by the > > terrorist prophet himself, Mohammed? No, it comes from the Gospel of Luke. > > It was read to millions of Christians a few Sundays ago in churches around > > the world. I wonder how many people in the pews heard it and thought "Wow, > > that really wouldn’t sound too good as a sound-bite in the media of the > > Muslim world" (or in atheist media, or even secular media for that matter). > > In the same way that lines from the Quran are taken out of context, lines > > from the Bible can also be taken out of context.Do Christians hate > > life?Christians that I know personally do not behave as if they hate life. > > As an industrialized country with such a high level of church attendance, > > the U.S. is a statistical anomaly. Many Americans identify themselves as > > Christian, 78% according tothis Gallup poll.We are by multiple measures a > > Christian country. > > This Christian country of ours has a very high illegal murder rate, > > especially when compared to other industrialized countries. Preventing > > those murders is an issue of much contention. This Christian country of > > ours also has a very high rate of "legal" extraterritorial murder in > > undeclared war zones all over the world. Those murders are not so difficult > > to avoid. For example, if an American soldier is not outside of the U.S., > > that American soldier will not be able to shoot or be shot by anyone > > outside of the U.S. In reality, despite my loved ones showing no outward > > signs of hating life, the argument can be made that Christian Americans do > > hate life based on the behavior of the society in which we live. We > > Americans tacitly agree to extraterritorial "legal" murders. > > Murder is the ending of life. Surely a case can be made for Christians, at > > least American Christians, not realizing the gravity of life. I’m unable to > > argue that life is "hated" as opposed to "disliked" or even worse, simply > > not appreciated. Or maybe it’s just the value of other people’s lives that > > is the problem. I suspect an American does tend to recognize the importance > > of his or her own life. > > I know quite a few people who call themselves Christians and quite a few > > who aren’t Christians and I don’t see a clear hatred of life among the one > > group more than the other. At its surface, those people I know don’t seem > > to have very effectively followed Jesus’ command to "hate…life itself." > > It’s a strongly worded statement written in the Bible that doesn’t look > > good as a sound-bite taken out of context, away from the centuries of > > schools of Biblical scholarship that exists and that many of us now read > > the Bible through. Perhaps it’s intellectually lazy of a person to try to > > do the same thing with the Quran and to speak like some kind of Quranic > > scholar because he knows a few ideas from the Quran that he read inUSA > > Today. I supposed in general we all know better than to trust > > self-proclaimed authorities. However, the fact that a single person watches > > the network news or buys a major newspaper indicates that there are many > > people who are comfortable with putting faith in those self-proclaimed > > authorities. > > On Sept 19, again Christians heard another confusing verse. It can quite > > effectively be taken out of context when one imagines the corporatist > > American government, like a greedy octopus, slithering around the world > > taking things by force."And I tell you, make friends for yourselves by > > means of dishonest wealth so that when it is gone, they may welcome you > > into the eternal homes."~ Luke 16:9 > > Christians agree that Jesus actually said that. > > This upcoming Sunday, the many Christian churches that use the Revised > > Common Lectionary will hear a reading from the book of Genesis where the > > patriarch Jacob wrestles with God. During this reading, God changes the > > unfortunately named Jacob’s name to "Israel." Jacob, one of the patriarchs > > to which Judaism and Christianity trace their faith, literally means "he > > who grasps the heal." Figuratively, this name has an even worse meaning: > > "He who deceives." Israel, his new and improved name, means: "he struggles > > with God." > > To me, there can be a beauty in a faith that lets you struggle with God. At > > the same time, it’s easy to take this out of context. To struggle with God > > is to be opposed to God, to challenge the Almighty and His ways. This > > presents a rather unflattering talking point about Israel. The word Israel, > > the name of the most problematic state in the Middle East, was chosen by > > leaders of that country as a way to present itself to the world – "struggle > > with God." For the billions of people out there who believe in a God that’s > > about the worst name you can come up with for a country. > > Let me just restate all that in a nine-second talking point about > > Judeo-Christian culture:Jacob means "he who deceives"; Israel means > > "struggles with God"; Jesus commands his followers to be dishonest and to > > hate life. Are these the professed values of a good people? What more does > > one need to know distrust Christians and Jews?Do these facts make me not > > want to go to church? No, they just make me realize how important it is to > > never trust the media about anything. Nine-second sound-bites are alluring > > and deceptive. Just like my religious proclivities seem very strange to > > others when taken out of context, the religious, political, athletic, > > emotional, and physical proclivities of nearly any person seem strange when > > taken out of context. For shock value, the hate mongers of American society > > love taking religion out of context, as long as Christianity’s not that > > religion.Filter the MediaOnalltopics there is an agenda. Base your > > understanding of situations on your relationship with people. Use the media > > to try to challenge yourself and to seek out differing perspectives.Never > > let your own experience be overshadowed by the words you read from some > > unknown journalist.I’ve sat down with enough respected journalists to > > realize that they are not as critically questioning and decent as their > > readers seem to believe.Slovak-Hungarian Hatred?In Slovakia Hungarians are > > said to be hated. There’s a long history in which Hungarians (Magyars) > > controlled the land known today as Slovakia. That history spanned a good > > thousand years and had some very ugly moments, akin to a soft genocide, > > that sought to snuff out the existence of Slovaks. > > It is said that Slovaks hate Hungarians. I can attest that some do. > > However, when I am invited to visit a Slovak family that has Hungarian > > neighbors, I recognize that relations between Slovak and Hungarian > > neighbors tend to be quite hospitable. Just as hospitable as with any other > > neighbor. > > The media and the whispers of popular culture, especially around election > > time, are quick to tell ugly stories about how bad those ethnic relations > > are. This no doubt actually influences some relationships. However, > > experience in the intimate relationships of a handful of diverse people > > tells me that the media is likely incorrect in this matter. I choose only > > to speak from my own experience on this topic, which also has its > > shortcomings, but is far more honest than pretending myself an expert just > > because I’ve read lots of work from some far-off journalists. > > When it comes to neighbors, my Slovak acquaintances tend to be quite > > welcoming to the Hungarian minority that still live in Slovakia. Forced > > language is a sign of oppression. The Hungarian authorities used to force > > Hungarian language on Slovaks and understandably that period in history > > still impassions many Slovaks today. Freely spoken language, on the other > > hand, is a way to build a bridge into a friendship. I often hear Slovaks > > throw around a few Hungarian phrases with their Hungarian neighbors. Such > > relationships are in the best interest of neighbors.Good relations are not > > in the best interest of those who 1. want to sell papers, 2. are filled > > with hate, and/or 3. have no other issues on which to win an election.The > > nationalist parties of Slovakia and Hungary don’t like these amicable > > relationships among Slovaks and Hungarians. They like to poke at the very > > real wounds of the past. The more they can get people to foremost remember > > those wounds, the more they can get their audience to forget that these are > > living breathing people they are asking them to hate and to mistreat, the > > more votes, the more media time, the more influence, the more money there > > is for those nationalist parties. They have a formula and they wield it > > effectively. > > A political consultant by the name of Mike Rothfeld,linked to here, gives a > > great speech on political participation that I saw at the Leadership > > Institute in Arlington, VA. In his speech, Rothfeld makes a request of his > > audience:Whenever you listen to a speech, whenever you read a newspaper, > > whenever you are watching TV, or even just talking face-to-face and see > > someone trying to get you to believe something, you’ve got to ask yourself > > ‘How does it benefit this person if I believe what he’s saying?’Cui bono? > > In whose interest? Is the old concept that he restates. We all know that > > people don’t often exert great effort just for the heck of it. Receiving > > communication through the media, from some person you don’t know > > intimately, let alone have never met face to face, makes the answering of > > that question considerably harder.The Effective Stereotype of the MuslimAre > > all Muslims secretly terrorist time-bombs waiting to go off? I don’t know, > > I can’t answer that one for you, but I can tell you that it’s a pretty > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
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