Two of my favorite guys Mike and Nominal in the same place!
Now, if Les can get his head out from his ass, I hope he will join too I miss Plainol, does he post here? On Oct 17, 4:32 am, "mike [ proud to be a liberal ] 532 !" <[email protected]> wrote: > hey how are doing i haven't seen you around in a while . > > On Oct 16, 12:19 pm, nominal9 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > hi mike..... > > nominal9 > > > On Oct 16, 10:03 am, "mike [ proud to be a liberal ] 532 !" > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > i do not believe in organized religion or "the Church" i believe they > > > are inventions of men to control other men ! > > > > On Oct 16, 8:12 am, MJ <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > 3 Reasons Why You Can’t Trust a Christian or a Jewby Allan > > > > Stevo"Whoever comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and > > > > children, brothers and sisters, yes, and even life itself, cannot be my > > > > disciple." > > > > Where’s this quote come from? A jihadist manual on terror? One of the > > > > Surahs of the Koran? Maybe Mao’s little red book? Was it spoken by the > > > > terrorist prophet himself, Mohammed? No, it comes from the Gospel of > > > > Luke. > > > > It was read to millions of Christians a few Sundays ago in churches > > > > around the world. I wonder how many people in the pews heard it and > > > > thought "Wow, that really wouldn’t sound too good as a sound-bite in > > > > the media of the Muslim world" (or in atheist media, or even secular > > > > media for that matter). In the same way that lines from the Quran are > > > > taken out of context, lines from the Bible can also be taken out of > > > > context.Do Christians hate life?Christians that I know personally do > > > > not behave as if they hate life. As an industrialized country with such > > > > a high level of church attendance, the U.S. is a statistical anomaly. > > > > Many Americans identify themselves as Christian, 78% according tothis > > > > Gallup poll.We are by multiple measures a Christian country. > > > > This Christian country of ours has a very high illegal murder rate, > > > > especially when compared to other industrialized countries. Preventing > > > > those murders is an issue of much contention. This Christian country of > > > > ours also has a very high rate of "legal" extraterritorial murder in > > > > undeclared war zones all over the world. Those murders are not so > > > > difficult to avoid. For example, if an American soldier is not outside > > > > of the U.S., that American soldier will not be able to shoot or be shot > > > > by anyone outside of the U.S. In reality, despite my loved ones showing > > > > no outward signs of hating life, the argument can be made that > > > > Christian Americans do hate life based on the behavior of the society > > > > in which we live. We Americans tacitly agree to extraterritorial > > > > "legal" murders. > > > > Murder is the ending of life. Surely a case can be made for Christians, > > > > at least American Christians, not realizing the gravity of life. I’m > > > > unable to argue that life is "hated" as opposed to "disliked" or even > > > > worse, simply not appreciated. Or maybe it’s just the value of other > > > > people’s lives that is the problem. I suspect an American does tend to > > > > recognize the importance of his or her own life. > > > > I know quite a few people who call themselves Christians and quite a > > > > few who aren’t Christians and I don’t see a clear hatred of life among > > > > the one group more than the other. At its surface, those people I know > > > > don’t seem to have very effectively followed Jesus’ command to > > > > "hate…life itself." > > > > It’s a strongly worded statement written in the Bible that doesn’t look > > > > good as a sound-bite taken out of context, away from the centuries of > > > > schools of Biblical scholarship that exists and that many of us now > > > > read the Bible through. Perhaps it’s intellectually lazy of a person to > > > > try to do the same thing with the Quran and to speak like some kind of > > > > Quranic scholar because he knows a few ideas from the Quran that he > > > > read inUSA Today. I supposed in general we all know better than to > > > > trust self-proclaimed authorities. However, the fact that a single > > > > person watches the network news or buys a major newspaper indicates > > > > that there are many people who are comfortable with putting faith in > > > > those self-proclaimed authorities. > > > > On Sept 19, again Christians heard another confusing verse. It can > > > > quite effectively be taken out of context when one imagines the > > > > corporatist American government, like a greedy octopus, slithering > > > > around the world taking things by force."And I tell you, make friends > > > > for yourselves by means of dishonest wealth so that when it is gone, > > > > they may welcome you into the eternal homes."~ Luke 16:9 > > > > Christians agree that Jesus actually said that. > > > > This upcoming Sunday, the many Christian churches that use the Revised > > > > Common Lectionary will hear a reading from the book of Genesis where > > > > the patriarch Jacob wrestles with God. During this reading, God changes > > > > the unfortunately named Jacob’s name to "Israel." Jacob, one of the > > > > patriarchs to which Judaism and Christianity trace their faith, > > > > literally means "he who grasps the heal." Figuratively, this name has > > > > an even worse meaning: "He who deceives." Israel, his new and improved > > > > name, means: "he struggles with God." > > > > To me, there can be a beauty in a faith that lets you struggle with > > > > God. At the same time, it’s easy to take this out of context. To > > > > struggle with God is to be opposed to God, to challenge the Almighty > > > > and His ways. This presents a rather unflattering talking point about > > > > Israel. The word Israel, the name of the most problematic state in the > > > > Middle East, was chosen by leaders of that country as a way to present > > > > itself to the world – "struggle with God." For the billions of people > > > > out there who believe in a God that’s about the worst name you can come > > > > up with for a country. > > > > Let me just restate all that in a nine-second talking point about > > > > Judeo-Christian culture:Jacob means "he who deceives"; Israel means > > > > "struggles with God"; Jesus commands his followers to be dishonest and > > > > to hate life. Are these the professed values of a good people? What > > > > more does one need to know distrust Christians and Jews?Do these facts > > > > make me not want to go to church? No, they just make me realize how > > > > important it is to never trust the media about anything. Nine-second > > > > sound-bites are alluring and deceptive. Just like my religious > > > > proclivities seem very strange to others when taken out of context, the > > > > religious, political, athletic, emotional, and physical proclivities of > > > > nearly any person seem strange when taken out of context. For shock > > > > value, the hate mongers of American society love taking religion out of > > > > context, as long as Christianity’s not that religion.Filter the > > > > MediaOnalltopics there is an agenda. Base your understanding of > > > > situations on your relationship with people. Use the media to try to > > > > challenge yourself and to seek out differing perspectives.Never let > > > > your own experience be overshadowed by the words you read from some > > > > unknown journalist.I’ve sat down with enough respected journalists to > > > > realize that they are not as critically questioning and decent as their > > > > readers seem to believe.Slovak-Hungarian Hatred?In Slovakia Hungarians > > > > are said to be hated. There’s a long history in which Hungarians > > > > (Magyars) controlled the land known today as Slovakia. That history > > > > spanned a good thousand years and had some very ugly moments, akin to a > > > > soft genocide, that sought to snuff out the existence of Slovaks. > > > > It is said that Slovaks hate Hungarians. I can attest that some do. > > > > However, when I am invited to visit a Slovak family that has Hungarian > > > > neighbors, I recognize that relations between Slovak and Hungarian > > > > neighbors tend to be quite hospitable. Just as hospitable as with any > > > > other neighbor. > > > > The media and the whispers of popular culture, especially around > > > > election time, are quick to tell ugly stories about how bad those > > > > ethnic relations are. This no doubt actually influences some > > > > relationships. However, experience in the intimate relationships of a > > > > handful of diverse people tells me that the media is likely incorrect > > > > in this matter. I choose only to speak from my own experience on this > > > > topic, which also has its shortcomings, but is far more honest than > > > > pretending myself an expert just because I’ve read lots of work from > > > > some far-off journalists. > > > > When it comes to neighbors, my Slovak acquaintances tend to be quite > > > > welcoming to the Hungarian minority that still live in Slovakia. Forced > > > > language is a sign of oppression. The Hungarian authorities used to > > > > force Hungarian language on Slovaks and understandably that period in > > > > history still impassions many Slovaks today. Freely spoken language, on > > > > the other hand, is a way to build a bridge into a friendship. I often > > > > hear Slovaks throw around a few Hungarian phrases with their Hungarian > > > > neighbors. Such relationships are in the best interest of > > > > neighbors.Good relations are not in the best interest of those who 1. > > > > want to sell papers, 2. are filled with hate, and/or 3. have no other > > > > issues on which to win an election.The nationalist parties of Slovakia > > > > and Hungary don’t like these amicable relationships among Slovaks and > > > > Hungarians. They like to poke at the very real wounds of the past. The > > > > more they can get people to foremost remember those wounds, the more > > > > they can get their audience to forget that these are living breathing > > > > people they are asking them to hate and to mistreat, the more votes, > > > > the more media time, the more influence, the more money there is for > > > > those nationalist parties. They have a formula and they wield it > > > > effectively. > > > > A political consultant by the name of Mike Rothfeld,linked to here, > > > > gives a great speech on political participation that I saw at the > > > > Leadership Institute in Arlington, VA. In his speech, Rothfeld makes a > > > > request of his audience:Whenever you listen to a speech, whenever you > > > > read a newspaper, whenever you are watching TV, or even just talking > > > > face-to-face and see someone trying to get you to believe something, > > > > you’ve got to ask yourself ‘How does it benefit this person if I > > > > believe what he’s saying?’Cui bono? In whose interest? Is the old > > > > concept that he restates. We all know that people don’t often exert > > > > great effort just for the heck of it. Receiving communication through > > > > the > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
