why is that only true for civil rights? On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 3:46 PM, Tommy News <[email protected]> wrote:
> No, Keith, Iowa is a horrible example. > > Civil Rights matters should NEVER be placed on the ballot, for the > majority almost always votes against the minority. > > Marriage Equality is coming. Get with the program and embrace it. > > On 2/15/11, Keith In Köln <[email protected]> wrote: > > Tom, > > > > Iowa is a good example. Once the good people of Iowa vote on the > redefining > > of marriage in their state, they will, as every other State has done, > > repeall the law. They have already voted the judges out of office who > chose > > to legislate from the bench, and redefine marriage. It is only a matter > of > > time before the people of New York, Vermont and Massachusetts speak out > > also. Even the most liberal state in the Union, California, flat out > > rejected the proposition of redefinition of marriage. > > > > Get real, You know it, your anti-American secularist agenda friends know > > it, and the members of Political Forum know it. Your days of calling for > > redefinition of marriage, and a secularist agenda are over. > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 9:08 PM, Tommy News <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > >> "First, there is but one kind of marriage in this Nation, and that is > >> between a man and a woman. You are attempting to change that > >> definition, and there can be no argument that this is what you are > >> attempting to do." > >> > >> False. There are other kinds of Marriage. Look at the five states and D. > >> C. > >> > >> "Second, the beast of burden that wrote this article, (obviously the > >> husband) has her facts wrong. As proof, here is California's > >> domestice partership law: > >> > >> > >> > http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=fam&group=00001-01000&file=297-297.5 > >> " > >> > >> False. Domestic partnerships are lesser, unequal contracts with lesser > >> rights. > >> > >> > >> "So Tom, get off of your hate filled name calling, secularist agenda! > >> Stop trying to change the definition of marriage, and if you really > >> care about homosexual rights, then start getting out and promoting the > >> cause of domestic partnerships in your state!" > >> > >> False. I am not filled with hate, and Civil Rights Equality is not > >> secular, it is catholic, or universal, with a small "C". Domestic > >> partnerships are lesser, unequal contracts. New York already reconizes > >> civil marriages performed in other states Governor Paterson saw to > >> that. The problem here remains the Homophobic GOP and a couple of > >> "Blue Dog" Democrats in the New York State Senate who still obstruct > >> Marriage Equality legislation. > >> > >> Get Informed, Keith, and perhaps then you will see the truth. > >> > >> > >> On 2/15/11, Keith In Köln <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > Tom, > >> > > >> > As usual, you don't address any of my substantive arguments or the > >> > issues > >> > that I raised. > >> > > >> > First, there is but one kind of marriage in this Nation, and that is > >> > between a man and a woman. You are attempting to change that > >> > definition, > >> > and there can be no argument that this is what you are attempting to > do. > >> > > >> > Second, the beast of burden that wrote this article, (obviously the > >> > husband) has her facts wrong. As proof, here is California's > domestice > >> > partership law: > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=fam&group=00001-01000&file=297-297.5 > >> > > >> > Which states in part: > >> > > >> > *297.5. (a) Registered domestic partners shall have the same rights, > >> > protections, and benefits, and shall be subject to the same > >> > responsibilities, obligations, and duties under law, whether they > >> > derive from statutes, administrative regulations, court rules, > >> > government policies, common law, or any other provisions or sources > >> > of law, as are granted to and imposed upon spouses.* > >> > > >> > > >> > So Tom, get off of your hate filled name calling, secularist agenda! > >> Stop > >> > trying to change the definition of marriage, and if you really care > >> > about > >> > homosexual rights, then start getting out and promoting the cause of > >> > domestic partnerships in your state! > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 5:02 PM, Tommy News <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > > >> >> Keith- > >> >> > >> >> Your blatent homophobia and animus are showing again. > >> >> > >> >> Civil Marriage is distinct and separate from Religious Marriage. > >> >> As long as the government makes laws about civil marriage, all people > >> >> must be included in those laws equally regardless of gender. Anything > >> >> less is discriminatory and unconstitutional. > >> >> > >> >> Churches are then free to bless those civil marriages or not as they > >> >> choose. There are many Progressive churches that will. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On 2/15/11, Keith In Köln <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> > Kathy missed a few states, California for one, has a civil > >> >> union/domestic > >> >> > partnership law. > >> >> > > >> >> > Just as important, the federal government does not acknowledge any > >> >> marriage > >> >> > other than what the definition of marrige defines, one man, one > >> >> > woman. > >> >> > > >> >> > So, in essence, Kathy and Tommy are both either Moonbats, who > haven't > >> a > >> >> > clue, or they are secularists who wish to push their secularist > >> >> > agenda > >> >> down > >> >> > our proverbial throats. > >> >> > > >> >> > Which one is it Tom? > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 3:49 PM, Tommy News <[email protected]> > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> 10 rights for Domestic Partnership, 1300 for Marriage. God bless > >> >> America? > >> >> >> Why? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> The Difference Between Marriage and Civil Unions > >> >> >> What's the Difference between Civil Unions and and Gay Marriage? > >> >> >> By Kathy Belge, > >> >> >> > >> >> >> You hear the politicians saying it all the time. “I support Civil > >> >> >> Unions, but not gay marriage.” What exactly does this mean? Some > >> >> >> even > >> >> >> say they support equal rights for gays and lesbians, but not gay > >> >> >> marriage. Is this possible? And why do gays and lesbians want > >> marriage > >> >> >> so badly when they can have civil unions? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> First of all, What is Marriage? When people marry, they tend to do > >> >> >> so > >> >> >> for reasons of love and commitment. But marriage is also a legal > >> >> >> status, which comes with rights and responsibilities. Marriage > >> >> >> establishes a legal kinship between you and your spouse. It is a > >> >> >> relationship that is recognized across cultures, countries and > >> >> >> religions. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> What is a Civil Union? Civil Unions and Domestic Partnerships > exist > >> in > >> >> >> only a handful of places like New Jersey and Washington and > Oregon. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Vermont was the first state to create civil unions in 2000 to > >> >> >> provide > >> >> >> legal protections to gays and lesbians in relationships in that > >> >> >> state > >> >> >> because gay marriage was not an option. The protections did not > >> extend > >> >> >> beyond the border of Vermont and no federal protections are > included > >> >> >> with a Civil Union. Civil Unions offer some of the same rights and > >> >> >> responsibilities as marriage, but only on a state level. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> What about Domestic partnership? Some states and municipalities > have > >> >> >> domestic partnership registries, but no domestic partnership law > is > >> >> >> the same. Some, like Oregon's domestic partnership law comes with > >> many > >> >> >> rights and responsibilities. Others offer very few benefits to the > >> >> >> couple. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> What are some of the differences between Civil Unions and Gay > >> Marriage? > >> >> >> Recognition in other states: Even though each state has its own > laws > >> >> >> around marriage, if someone is married in one state and moves to > >> >> >> another, their marriage is legally recognized. For example, Oregon > >> >> >> marriage law applies to people 17 and over. In Washington state, > the > >> >> >> couple must be 18 to wed. However, Washington will recognize the > >> >> >> marriage of two 17 year olds from Oregon who move there. This is > not > >> >> >> the case with Civil Unions and Domestic Partnerships. If someone > has > >> a > >> >> >> Domestic Partnership, that union is not recognized by some states > >> >> >> and > >> >> >> not others. Some states have even ruled that they do not have to > >> >> >> recognize civil unions performed in other states, because their > >> states > >> >> >> have no such legal category. As gay marriages become legal in > other > >> >> >> states, this status may change. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Immigration: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> A United States citizen who is married can sponsor his or her > >> >> >> non-American spouse for immigration into this country. Those with > >> >> >> Civil Unions have no such privilege. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Taxes: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Civil Unions are not recognized by the federal government, so > >> >> >> couples > >> >> >> would not be able to file joint-tax returns or be eligible for tax > >> >> >> breaks or protections the government affords to married couples. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Benefits: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> The General Accounting Office in 1997 released a list of 1,049 > >> >> >> benefits and protections available to heterosexual married > couples. > >> >> >> These benefits range from federal benefits, such as survivor > >> >> >> benefits > >> >> >> through Social Security, sick leave to care for ailing partner, > tax > >> >> >> breaks, veterans benefits and insurance breaks. They also include > >> >> >> things like family discounts, obtaining family insurance through > >> >> >> your > >> >> >> employer, visiting your spouse in the hospital and making medical > >> >> >> decisions if your partner is unable to. Civil Unions protect some > of > >> >> >> these rights, but not all of them. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> But can’t a lawyer set all this up for gay and lesbian couples? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> No. A lawyer can set up some things like durable power of > attorney, > >> >> >> wills and medical power of attorney. There are several problems > with > >> >> >> this, however. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> 1. It costs thousands of dollars in legal fees. A simple marriage > >> >> >> license, which usually costs under $100 would cover all the same > >> >> >> rights and benefits. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> 2. Any of these can be challenged in court. As a matter of fact, > >> >> >> more > >> >> >> wills are challenged than not. In the case of wills, legal spouses > >> >> >> always have more legal power than any other family member. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> 3. Marriage laws are universal. If someone’s husband or wife is > >> >> >> injured in an accident, all you need to do is show up and say > you’re > >> >> >> his or her spouse. You will not be questioned. If you show up at > the > >> >> >> hospital with your legal paperwork, the employees may not know > what > >> to > >> >> >> do with you. If you simply say, "He's my husband," you will > >> >> >> immediately be taken to your spouse's side. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Even with lesbian and gay marriages being performed and recognized > >> >> >> in > >> >> >> some states, the Federal Defense of Marriage Law prohibits the > >> federal > >> >> >> government from recognizing gay and lesbian relationships. This > puts > >> >> >> gay and lesbian couples who are married in a legal limbo. How do > >> >> >> they > >> >> >> file their tax returns? Do they have to pay the tax on their > >> partner’s > >> >> >> health insurance? How do they fill out legal and other forms, > single > >> >> >> or married? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Creating Civil Unions creates a separate and unequal status for > some > >> >> >> of America’s citizens. The Massachusetts Supreme Judicial court > >> >> >> ruled > >> >> >> that creating a separate class for gay and lesbian citizens is not > >> >> >> permissible and that is why they have voted that only marriage > >> >> >> equals > >> >> >> marriage. The precedent was set with Brown v. The Board of > Education > >> >> >> regarding segregation in public education. Ironically, > Massachusetts > >> >> >> marriage law went into effect on the 50th anniversary of Brown v. > >> >> >> Board of Education. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> The United States Constitution guarantees equality for all. As you > >> can > >> >> >> see, marriage and civil unions are not the same. Creating equal > >> access > >> >> >> to marriage is the only fair way to ensure equality for gay and > >> >> >> straight couples alike. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> More: > >> >> >> http://lesbianlife.about.com/cs/wedding/a/unionvmarriage_2.htm > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> -- > >> >> >> Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time. > >> >> >> Have a great day, > >> >> >> Tommy > >> >> >> > >> >> >> -- > >> >> >> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. > >> >> >> For options & help see > http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum > >> >> >> > >> >> >> * Visit our other community at > >> >> >> http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ <http://www.politicalforum.com/> < > >> http://www.politicalforum.com/>< > >> >> http://www.politicalforum.com/> > >> >> >> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. > >> >> >> * Read the latest breaking news, and more. > >> >> > > >> >> > -- > >> >> > Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. > >> >> > For options & help see > http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum > >> >> > > >> >> > * Visit our other community at > >> >> > http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ <http://www.politicalforum.com/>< > >> http://www.politicalforum.com/> > >> >> > * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. > >> >> > * Read the latest breaking news, and more. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time. > >> >> Have a great day, > >> >> Tommy > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. > >> >> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum > >> >> > >> >> * Visit our other community at > >> >> http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ <http://www.politicalforum.com/>< > >> http://www.politicalforum.com/> > >> >> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. > >> >> * Read the latest breaking news, and more. > >> >> > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. > >> > For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum > >> > > >> > * Visit our other community at > >> > http://www.PoliticalForum.com/<http://www.politicalforum.com/> > >> > * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. > >> > * Read the latest breaking news, and more. > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time. > >> Have a great day, > >> Tommy > >> > >> -- > >> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. > >> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum > >> > >> * Visit our other community at > >> http://www.PoliticalForum.com/<http://www.politicalforum.com/> > >> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. > >> * Read the latest breaking news, and more. > >> > > > > -- > > Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. > > For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum > > > > * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ > > * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. > > * Read the latest breaking news, and more. > > > -- > Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time. > Have a great day, > Tommy > > -- > Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. > For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum > > * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ > * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. > * Read the latest breaking news, and more. > -- Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
