Where did you get those???? On Jun 2, 1:21 pm, Jonathan Ashley <[email protected]> wrote: > You cannot have freedom if you rely on government. The two terms > contradict each other. > > FREEDOM, n. 1. A state of exemption from the power or control of > another; liberty; exemption from slavery, servitude or confinement. > > GOVERNMENT, n. 1. Control; restraint. > > On 06/02/2011 10:00 AM, GregfromBoston wrote: > > > > > Uhm, pretty much THE job description of the government > > > "insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote > > the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves > > and our Posterity" > > > On Jun 2, 12:41 pm, Jonathan Ashley<[email protected]> > > wrote: > >> You don't have freedom if you reply on government to protect you. > > >> On 06/02/2011 09:10 AM, plainolamerican wrote: > > >>> one day enough people will finally > >>> be fed up enough that we will take our freedom back > >>> --- > >>> you don't have freedoms that you can't protect > >>> On Jun 2, 11:00 am, Jonathan Ashley<[email protected]> > >>> wrote: > >>>> *The Patriot Act, Fox News, the TSA and Feeling Less Free* > >>>> 1 June 2011 by Szandor Blestman > >>>> The Patriot Act, in my opinion, has been one of the most egregious, > >>>> liberty violating acts that has ever been passed by congress. It was a > >>>> knee jerk reaction to the 9/11 attacks. It is so huge and was passed so > >>>> quickly after that event that any thinking person must realize it had to > >>>> be written well before the attacks took place, was waiting for just such > >>>> an attack so it could be introduced, and could not have possibly been > >>>> read and its implications understood by anyone who voted for it. I doubt > >>>> very much that any congress critter has yet to read it in its entirety. > >>>> Here it is almost ten years later and it still sullies the political > >>>> landscape of this once great republic. > >>>> It seems that most common folk don't fully understand what the Patriot > >>>> Act truly is. If the polls are to be believed (I personally don't trust > >>>> most polls) then they seem to think that the Patriot Act has somehow > >>>> made our nation more secure. They seem to believe the propaganda that is > >>>> spewed forth from corporate establishment media giants that the Patriot > >>>> Act has done its job and protected us. Yet it wasn't the Patriot Act > >>>> that stopped the shoe bomber or the underwear bomber, it was the > >>>> passengers themselves. And every time a plot is reported foiled, it is > >>>> later determined that the plot only occurred because some federal > >>>> security agency or another helped it along. So one might wonder, if the > >>>> Patriot Act has been doing its job, will they finally get rid of it if > >>>> it fails and another terrorist event occurs? I doubt that very much. > >>>> That's too much like hoping that once Osama Bin Laden is finally and > >>>> officially killed in some special forces raid that the wars of > >>>> occupation will end and our troops will come home. > >>>> Recently, three of the most soviet like, Big Brother type provisions of > >>>> the Patriot Act were set to expire. Congress didn't want to deal with > >>>> them earlier in the year, likely because they were worried about > >>>> backlash. The Senate did what they so often do, put off the vote until > >>>> the last minute and then rushed the legislation through without proper > >>>> debate because they don't want the legislation scrutinized. They passed > >>>> a four year extension on this monstrosity complete with its most > >>>> controversial provisions because, in my humble opinion, they don't want > >>>> to give up power and they'd love to be able to arrest their political > >>>> adversaries should push come to shove. > >>>> Rand Paul, the freshman senator from Kentucky, was the only one who > >>>> stood up to this abuse of power. He was the only one who questioned the > >>>> power of the party leadership, on both sides of the aisle. He merely > >>>> asked for a debate on introducing amendments meant to protect freedoms > >>>> we as Americans are supposed to enjoy. For all his efforts he was > >>>> excoriated by the establishment for not following like a sheep instead > >>>> of applauded for his stand and his most American individualist ideals. > >>>> Now, I'm not one to watch corporate television news programs, but I came > >>>> across a Fox program with a bunch of talking heads discussing this > >>>> issue. I was appalled to hear them more or less condoning a police state > >>>> in our nation. They are taking a thousand years of struggle against > >>>> authoritarianism and throwing it away, defending a doctrine that allows > >>>> government agents to spy on people going about their daily business > >>>> without just cause. They are defending a doctrine that claims everyone > >>>> is guilty until they can prove themselves innocent. It was this kind of > >>>> tyranny that the founding fathers fought against. This kind of tyranny > >>>> led to the writing of the Declaration of Independence. This kind of > >>>> tyranny was the reason they included the Bill of Rights in the > >>>> constitution. The Patriot Act is as un-American, fascist, soviet-esque > >>>> and unpatriotic as it gets. It violates the natural rights of > >>>> individuals in almost every way they can be violated and yet these men > >>>> continue to support it without so much as batting an eye, and then they > >>>> call Rand Paul extreme. To them, the senator from Kentucky is extreme > >>>> because he values the principles America was founded upon. One can only > >>>> assume they consider all individualists, constitutionalists, > >>>> libertarians and anyone who wants a smaller, more accountable federal > >>>> government as extreme. To them, an extremist is one who challenges the > >>>> supremacy of their corporate masters. > >>>> One of the most remarkable statements came from Charles Krauthammer. He > >>>> claimed that all those warnings about America becoming a police state > >>>> didn't pan out. Has he been living under a rock for the last ten years? > >>>> He asked something along the line of is their anyone who thinks their > >>>> freedoms have been curtailed? He suggested that he hadn't heard of > >>>> anyone who felt that way. Well, I for one feel that way, Mr. > >>>> Krauthammer, so now you have heard of someone. > >>>> How about all those people who are subjected to naked body scanners at > >>>> the airports and TSA gropings? Do you think they might feel a little > >>>> less free? I know that I'd like to feel like I could fly places, but I > >>>> don't want to subject myself to their intrusions. I seem to recall that > >>>> others have even protested against such measures. How could you call > >>>> that anything but a police state provision? It is the Patriot Act that > >>>> has given us the TSA, and now they're coming out of the airports and are > >>>> soon to be seen on a street, in a mall, or at a prom dance near you. > >>>> They needed to do more than just debate amendments to the Patriot Act, > >>>> they need to repeal the entire bill. > >>>> How about the checkpoints that are popping up, especially in border > >>>> states? Do you think that the people who have to pass through them feel > >>>> less free? Do you think that they might start to have an inkling that > >>>> something has gone wrong and this is no longer the free nation it has > >>>> been claimed to be? How about all those people who want to drink raw > >>>> milk? Do you think they feel less free when the Feds tell them they > >>>> can't decide for themselves what to put in their own bodies? How about > >>>> the peaceful Amish, do you think they might feel less free when their > >>>> farms are raided by SWAT teams for selling the milk others ask for? How > >>>> about the dancers at the Jefferson Memorial? Do you think they might > >>>> feel a little less free as they were handcuffed for prancing around a > >>>> little or gently swaying in place? These are things that have all been > >>>> normalized because of the Patriot Act and similar legislation. It is the > >>>> federal government that has become extreme. It is they who are cracking > >>>> down on peaceful individuals and restricting normal human activity they > >>>> should have no business even caring about. > >>>> Do you like the fact that FBI agents can now write their own warrants > >>>> without having to so much as show a judge probable cause, just like the > >>>> king's men were able to do in the 1700s? Do you like the fact that they > >>>> can break into anyone's home they want when no one's home and steal > >>>> whatever they wish without a warrant, simply on a suspicion, and not > >>>> have to be accountable to anyone? Do you think it's ok that they can > >>>> proclaim someone an enemy combatant at anytime they wish and hold them > >>>> indefinitely without a trial? Do you believe that I'm a little extreme > >>>> for mentioning such provisions and that your government would never do > >>>> such things? The Patriot Act grants government agents the legal > >>>> authority to take such actions, and when someone has such power it is > >>>> only a matter of time before that power is abused and some innocent > >>>> individuals suffer because of that abuse. Besides, just because you may > >>>> not have heard about such things happening doesn't mean such events > >>>> haven't already occurred. You certainly can't count on the corporate > >>>> media to inform you of such abuses when they do happen. > >>>> There are plenty of people that feel their freedoms have been curtailed. > >>>> There are plenty of people who feel less safe because of government > >>>> intrusion, not more secure. Everyday more and more people become victims > >>>> of state agents. Everyday new police brutality videos come out. Everyday > >>>> stories of the police state grow more and more egregious. Everyday the > >>>> politicians show us they don't give a damn about individual rights and > >>>> care only about their own power. Everyday the corporate media shows its > >>>> true colors by defending collectivist doctrine and the agenda of the > >>>> power elite. I believe, however, that one day enough people will finally > >>>> be fed up enough that we will take our freedom > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
-- Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
