Promise On Jun 2, 6:09 pm, Jonathan Ashley <[email protected]> wrote: > Don't confuse the definitions from the 1913 edition with those of the > 1828 edition. > > On 06/02/2011 02:19 PM, GregfromBoston wrote: > > > > > Thanks. > > > Now plug the words into your own link > > > On Jun 2, 4:37 pm, Jonathan Ashley<[email protected]> > > wrote: > >> I forgot to post the following link: > > >>http://machaut.uchicago.edu/websters > > >> On 06/02/2011 12:57 PM, GregfromBoston wrote: > > >>> 1828. > >>> Thanks. > >>> Yikes > >>> On Jun 2, 2:08 pm, Jonathan Ashley<[email protected]> > >>> wrote: > >>>> Webster's dictionary - 1828. > >>>> On 06/02/2011 10:31 AM, GregfromBoston wrote: > >>>>> Where did you get those???? > >>>>> On Jun 2, 1:21 pm, Jonathan Ashley<[email protected]> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> You cannot have freedom if you rely on government. The two terms > >>>>>> contradict each other. > >>>>>> FREEDOM, n. 1. A state of exemption from the power or control of > >>>>>> another; liberty; exemption from slavery, servitude or confinement. > >>>>>> GOVERNMENT, n. 1. Control; restraint. > >>>>>> On 06/02/2011 10:00 AM, GregfromBoston wrote: > >>>>>>> Uhm, pretty much THE job description of the government > >>>>>>> "insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote > >>>>>>> the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves > >>>>>>> and our Posterity" > >>>>>>> On Jun 2, 12:41 pm, Jonathan Ashley<[email protected]> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>> You don't have freedom if you reply on government to protect you. > >>>>>>>> On 06/02/2011 09:10 AM, plainolamerican wrote: > >>>>>>>>> one day enough people will finally > >>>>>>>>> be fed up enough that we will take our freedom back > >>>>>>>>> --- > >>>>>>>>> you don't have freedoms that you can't protect > >>>>>>>>> On Jun 2, 11:00 am, Jonathan Ashley<[email protected]> > >>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> *The Patriot Act, Fox News, the TSA and Feeling Less Free* > >>>>>>>>>> 1 June 2011 by Szandor Blestman > >>>>>>>>>> The Patriot Act, in my opinion, has been one of the most egregious, > >>>>>>>>>> liberty violating acts that has ever been passed by congress. It > >>>>>>>>>> was a > >>>>>>>>>> knee jerk reaction to the 9/11 attacks. It is so huge and was > >>>>>>>>>> passed so > >>>>>>>>>> quickly after that event that any thinking person must realize it > >>>>>>>>>> had to > >>>>>>>>>> be written well before the attacks took place, was waiting for > >>>>>>>>>> just such > >>>>>>>>>> an attack so it could be introduced, and could not have possibly > >>>>>>>>>> been > >>>>>>>>>> read and its implications understood by anyone who voted for it. I > >>>>>>>>>> doubt > >>>>>>>>>> very much that any congress critter has yet to read it in its > >>>>>>>>>> entirety. > >>>>>>>>>> Here it is almost ten years later and it still sullies the > >>>>>>>>>> political > >>>>>>>>>> landscape of this once great republic. > >>>>>>>>>> It seems that most common folk don't fully understand what the > >>>>>>>>>> Patriot > >>>>>>>>>> Act truly is. If the polls are to be believed (I personally don't > >>>>>>>>>> trust > >>>>>>>>>> most polls) then they seem to think that the Patriot Act has > >>>>>>>>>> somehow > >>>>>>>>>> made our nation more secure. They seem to believe the propaganda > >>>>>>>>>> that is > >>>>>>>>>> spewed forth from corporate establishment media giants that the > >>>>>>>>>> Patriot > >>>>>>>>>> Act has done its job and protected us. Yet it wasn't the Patriot > >>>>>>>>>> Act > >>>>>>>>>> that stopped the shoe bomber or the underwear bomber, it was the > >>>>>>>>>> passengers themselves. And every time a plot is reported foiled, > >>>>>>>>>> it is > >>>>>>>>>> later determined that the plot only occurred because some federal > >>>>>>>>>> security agency or another helped it along. So one might wonder, > >>>>>>>>>> if the > >>>>>>>>>> Patriot Act has been doing its job, will they finally get rid of > >>>>>>>>>> it if > >>>>>>>>>> it fails and another terrorist event occurs? I doubt that very > >>>>>>>>>> much. > >>>>>>>>>> That's too much like hoping that once Osama Bin Laden is finally > >>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>> officially killed in some special forces raid that the wars of > >>>>>>>>>> occupation will end and our troops will come home. > >>>>>>>>>> Recently, three of the most soviet like, Big Brother type > >>>>>>>>>> provisions of > >>>>>>>>>> the Patriot Act were set to expire. Congress didn't want to deal > >>>>>>>>>> with > >>>>>>>>>> them earlier in the year, likely because they were worried about > >>>>>>>>>> backlash. The Senate did what they so often do, put off the vote > >>>>>>>>>> until > >>>>>>>>>> the last minute and then rushed the legislation through without > >>>>>>>>>> proper > >>>>>>>>>> debate because they don't want the legislation scrutinized. They > >>>>>>>>>> passed > >>>>>>>>>> a four year extension on this monstrosity complete with its most > >>>>>>>>>> controversial provisions because, in my humble opinion, they don't > >>>>>>>>>> want > >>>>>>>>>> to give up power and they'd love to be able to arrest their > >>>>>>>>>> political > >>>>>>>>>> adversaries should push come to shove. > >>>>>>>>>> Rand Paul, the freshman senator from Kentucky, was the only one who > >>>>>>>>>> stood up to this abuse of power. He was the only one who > >>>>>>>>>> questioned the > >>>>>>>>>> power of the party leadership, on both sides of the aisle. He > >>>>>>>>>> merely > >>>>>>>>>> asked for a debate on introducing amendments meant to protect > >>>>>>>>>> freedoms > >>>>>>>>>> we as Americans are supposed to enjoy. For all his efforts he was > >>>>>>>>>> excoriated by the establishment for not following like a sheep > >>>>>>>>>> instead > >>>>>>>>>> of applauded for his stand and his most American individualist > >>>>>>>>>> ideals. > >>>>>>>>>> Now, I'm not one to watch corporate television news programs, but > >>>>>>>>>> I came > >>>>>>>>>> across a Fox program with a bunch of talking heads discussing this > >>>>>>>>>> issue. I was appalled to hear them more or less condoning a police > >>>>>>>>>> state > >>>>>>>>>> in our nation. They are taking a thousand years of struggle against > >>>>>>>>>> authoritarianism and throwing it away, defending a doctrine that > >>>>>>>>>> allows > >>>>>>>>>> government agents to spy on people going about their daily business > >>>>>>>>>> without just cause. They are defending a doctrine that claims > >>>>>>>>>> everyone > >>>>>>>>>> is guilty until they can prove themselves innocent. It was this > >>>>>>>>>> kind of > >>>>>>>>>> tyranny that the founding fathers fought against. This kind of > >>>>>>>>>> tyranny > >>>>>>>>>> led to the writing of the Declaration of Independence. This kind of > >>>>>>>>>> tyranny was the reason they included the Bill of Rights in the > >>>>>>>>>> constitution. The Patriot Act is as un-American, fascist, > >>>>>>>>>> soviet-esque > >>>>>>>>>> and unpatriotic as it gets. It violates the natural rights of > >>>>>>>>>> individuals in almost every way they can be violated and yet these > >>>>>>>>>> men > >>>>>>>>>> continue to support it without so much as batting an eye, and then > >>>>>>>>>> they > >>>>>>>>>> call Rand Paul extreme. To them, the senator from Kentucky is > >>>>>>>>>> extreme > >>>>>>>>>> because he values the principles America was founded upon. One can > >>>>>>>>>> only > >>>>>>>>>> assume they consider all individualists, constitutionalists, > >>>>>>>>>> libertarians and anyone who wants a smaller, more accountable > >>>>>>>>>> federal > >>>>>>>>>> government as extreme. To them, an extremist is one who challenges > >>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>> supremacy of their corporate masters. > >>>>>>>>>> One of the most remarkable statements came from Charles > >>>>>>>>>> Krauthammer. He > >>>>>>>>>> claimed that all those warnings about America becoming a police > >>>>>>>>>> state > >>>>>>>>>> didn't pan out. Has he been living under a rock for the last ten > >>>>>>>>>> years? > >>>>>>>>>> He asked something along the line of is their anyone who thinks > >>>>>>>>>> their > >>>>>>>>>> freedoms have been curtailed? He suggested that he hadn't heard of > >>>>>>>>>> anyone who felt that way. Well, I for one feel that way, Mr. > >>>>>>>>>> Krauthammer, so now you have heard of someone. > >>>>>>>>>> How about all those people who are subjected to naked body > >>>>>>>>>> scanners at > >>>>>>>>>> the airports and TSA gropings? Do you think they might feel a > >>>>>>>>>> little > >>>>>>>>>> less free? I know that I'd like to feel like I could fly places, > >>>>>>>>>> but I > >>>>>>>>>> don't want to subject myself to their intrusions. I seem to recall > >>>>>>>>>> that > >>>>>>>>>> others have even protested against such measures. How could you > >>>>>>>>>> call > >>>>>>>>>> that anything but a police state provision? It is the Patriot Act > >>>>>>>>>> that > >>>>>>>>>> has given us the TSA, and now they're coming out of the airports > >>>>>>>>>> and are > >>>>>>>>>> soon to be seen on a street, in a mall, or at a prom dance near > >>>>>>>>>> you. > >>>>>>>>>> They needed to do more than just debate amendments to the Patriot > >>>>>>>>>> Act, > >>>>>>>>>> they need to repeal the entire bill. > >>>>>>>>>> How about the checkpoints that are popping up, especially in border > >>>>>>>>>> states? Do you think that the people who have to pass through them > >>>>>>>>>> feel > >>>>>>>>>> less free? Do you think that they might start to have an inkling > >>>>>>>>>> that > >>>>>>>>>> something has gone wrong and this is no longer the free nation it > >>>>>>>>>> has > >>>>>>>>>> been claimed to be? How about all those people who want to drink > >>>>>>>>>> raw > >>>>>>>>>> milk? Do you think they feel less free when the Feds tell them they > >>>>>>>>>> can't decide for themselves what to put in their own bodies? How > >>>>>>>>>> about > >>>>>>>>>> the peaceful Amish, do you think they might feel less free when > >>>>>>>>>> their > >>>>>>>>>> farms are raided by SWAT teams for selling the milk others ask > >>>>>>>>>> for? How > >>>>>>>>>> about the dancers at the Jefferson Memorial? Do you think they > >>>>>>>>>> might > >>>>>>>>>> feel a little less free as they were handcuffed for prancing > >>>>>>>>>> around a > >>>>>>>>>> little or gently swaying in place? These are things that have all > >>>>>>>>>> been > >>>>>>>>>> normalized because of the Patriot Act and similar legislation. It > >>>>>>>>>> is the > >>>>>>>>>> federal government that has become extreme. It is they who are > >>>>>>>>>> cracking > >>>>>>>>>> down on peaceful individuals and restricting normal human activity > >>>>>>>>>> they > >>>>>>>>>> should have no business even caring about. > >>>>>>>>>> Do you like the fact that FBI agents can now write their own > >>>>>>>>>> warrants > >>>>>>>>>> without having to so much as show a judge probable cause, just > >>>>>>>>>> like the > >>>>>>>>>> king's men were able to do in the 1700s? Do you like the fact that > >>>>>>>>>> they > >>>>>>>>>> can break into anyone's home they want when no one's home and steal > >>>>>>>>>> whatever they wish without a warrant, simply on a suspicion, and > >>>>>>>>>> not > >>>>>>>>>> have to be accountable to anyone? Do you think it's ok that they > >>>>>>>>>> can > >>>>>>>>>> proclaim > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
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