The first mention in the Bible is in Genesis 19:1-13 --- why people try to use a jewish myth to defend or condemn homosexuality is beyond reason
choose your myths carefully On Aug 12, 4:39 am, Bruce Majors <[email protected]> wrote: > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Mark > ** > > Pardon the interruption. I needed to take time away from my three > contacts. > > Karl, this post is one of the most knowledgeable, respectful, well written > posts I have ever read in a Yahoo group. It is plain to see your passion in > the Bible, and if passion is too strong a word, your dedication to > researching, and seeking to understand, from a historical, as well as a > biblical sense. > > I thank you for your wisdom. Reading this today, simply made to step back > and think. > > *From:* P <[email protected]> > > Warning: This is a very long post and includes a bible lesson. > > I reset the subject so remove the term "fag basher" which I find offensive > both to my friends who are homosexuals and to my friends who do not approve > of homosexuality. Hopefully this will not cause anyone any confusion. > > In response to Spencer: > I think the government should stay out of the marriage definition business. > Conflicts are bound to occur in an "open society" with diverse religious and > cultural points of view. For the government to force anyone to do anything > that is against one religion or favorable to another is generally > unnecessary if the government would stay within it's intended boundaries of > power. > > Biblical scholars have come down on both sides of the homosexual issue; the > split is roughly 50/50. There is evidence that can lead one to either > conclusion. A very brief summary of my own studies regarding this issue is > below. > > Scholars who suggest Paul was a homosexual are simply projecting their own > "wishful thinking" on a evidence that is sketchy to say the least, > non-existent to say the truth. > > While you have a right to your opinion on what "God thinks", if you are > wrong, it is you who are ignorant. I guarantee you that it is not God. > > Your last sentence is again, wishful thinking on the part of people who > project an agenda on to evidence that is far too weak to make any real > objective conclusions about. > > - I'm sure there are many people who "hate" homosexuals that are "closet" > homosexuals. > - I'm sure there are many who hate homosexuals because they simply hate > anything they do not understand. > - I'm sure there are many who have interpreted the bible to say "God sees > homosexuality as an abomination" while at the same time, keeping many > friends who are openly homosexual. > - I'm sure there are many other categories of belief that can be > illustrated as wide spread. > > I would appreciate it if you would include some links to research when you > site it in your posts. > > A brief essay from my own studies: > Their are twelve mentions of homosexuality in the bible; 2 refer to rape, 5 > refer to cult prostitution, 1 refers to prostitution and pederasty, and 4 > are non-specific. > > The first mention in the Bible is in Genesis 19:1-13. The wicked men of > Sodom attempted a homosexual rape of two messengers from God who had come to > visit Lot. As a result of this and other widespread wickedness, God > destroyed the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. > > The next two mentions are in Leviticus: > Lev 18:22 ESV > You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. > Lev 20:13 ESV > If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an > abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. > > Life was harsh in early Old Testament times. The wanderings and struggle for > survival of the Israelites did not permit prisons or rehabilitation. Anyone > who deviated seriously from the norm was either stoned to death or exiled. > The Old Testament prescribed the death penalty for the crimes of murder, > attacking or cursing a parent, kidnapping, failure to confine a dangerous > animal resulting in death, witchcraft and sorcery, sex with an animal, doing > work on the Sabbath, incest, adultery, homosexual acts, prostitution by a > priest's daughter, blasphemy, false prophecy, perjury in capital cases and > false claim of a woman's virginity at the time of marriage. > > It must be emphasized that, according to the New Testament, we are no longer > under the harsh Old Testament Law (John 1:16-17, Romans 8:1-3, 1 Corinthians > 9:20-21). The concern with punishment is now secondary to Jesus' message of > repentance and redemption. Both reward and punishment are seen as properly > taking place in eternity, rather than in this life. > > In Old Testament times, homosexual activity was strongly associated with > idolatrous cult prostitution as in 1 Kings 14:24, 15:12. (There was also > cult prostitution by females.) In fact, the word "abomination," used in both > mentions of homosexual acts in Leviticus, is a translation of the Hebrew > word tow' ebah which means something morally disgusting, but it also has a > strong implication of idolatry. Thus, many Bible scholars believe the > condemnations in Leviticus are more a condemnation of the idolatry than of > the homosexual acts themselves. However, that interpretation is not certain. > > As for the New Testament, Jesus never mentioned homosexuality, but He did > condemn all forms of sexual immorality: > > What comes out of you is what defiles you. For from within, out of your > hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, > greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All > these evils come from inside and defile you. (TNIV, Mark 7:20-23) > > The apostle Paul, in one of his letters to the Corinthians, wrote the verses > most often quoted on this subject: > > Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not > be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor > male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor > drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And > that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you > were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our > God. (NIV, 1st Corinthians 6:9-11) > > This verse has been translated in as many different ways as there are > different versions of the Bible, so we have to look at the oldest Greek > manuscripts to try to grasp what Paul was really saying. The word > translated here as "male prostitute" is the Greek word malakos which > literally means "soft to the touch." However, it was used metaphorically in > a negative way to refer to a catamite (a boy kept for sexual relations with > a man) or to a male prostitute in general. The word translated here as > "homosexual offender" is the Greek word arsenokoites which means a person > who engages in any kind of unnatural sex, but especially homosexual > intercourse. Some believe this use of arsenokoites referred specifically to > the men who kept catamites, but that is not certain. > > There are two other New Testament mentions of homosexual acts, in Romans > 1:25-27 and 1 Timothy 1:8-10. In this passage from Romans, again in the > context of idolatry, Paul mentions women who "exchanged natural relations > for unnatural ones," which might apply to lesbian acts: > > They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created > things rather than the Creator-- who is forever praised. Amen. Because of > this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged > natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned > natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. > Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the > due penalty for their perversion. (NIV, Romans 1:25-27) > > It is sometimes said that the friendship between David and Jonathan (1 > Samuel 18:3-4, 2 Samuel 1:26) was an example of a homosexual relationship. > The relationships between Ruth and Naomi (Ruth 1:14) and between Jesus and > John ("the disciple Jesus loved" in John 13:23; 19:26; 21:7; 21:20) are also > mentioned. > > In modern Western culture we associate touching, kissing and the word "love" > with a sexual relationship. But that was not at all the case in Biblical era > culture. Most Bible scholars say these relationships were no more than close > friendships. That is especially clear in the case of Jesus and John - the > word translated as "loved" was the Greek word agape, which means kindness > and respect rather than romantic or sexual love. > > There is no mention of same-sex marriages or partnerships in the Bible, > either for or against. The omission is probably because these issues were > not even considered in Biblical times. > > Pepsiman > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Spencer <[email protected]> > *To:* [email protected] > *Sent:* Wed, July 13, 2011 1:10:48 PM > *Subject:* [RumblesAList] Homosexuality, The Bible & Fag Bashers > > ---News Article: > > Fotusky was not immediately available for comment, but in her letter, dated > July 11, she said she believes the Bible takes precedence over man-made > laws. > > "The Bible clearly teaches that God created marriage between male and female > as a divine gift that preserves families and cultures. Since I love and > follow Him, I cannot put my signature on something that is against God," she > wrote. > > ---------------(SPENCER)--It is both sad and in some ways amusing for > someone to cite the King James version of the Bible and contrast that to > "ma-made laws". > > ---Furthermore, biblical scholars have long since debunked the claim that > private, one on one, homosexual relationships are generally prohibited by > "the Bible". Jesus Christ *never* spoke against homosexuality (he busted on > the rich non-stop), and in fact, there are passages where he condones or > approves of homosexual liasons in an indirect manner. Scholars also have > suggested that there is considerable evidence that Paul was a closet > homosexual, and much of the 'anti homosexual' biblical material comes from > Paul's writings. > The old Testament comments are focused primarily upon what would be drag > queen prostitutes in today's culture and upon the need for the ancient > Jewish tribes to produce a lot of babies so they would have soldiers for > their enemies. > ----To summarize, I feel quite certain that God is not an ignorant bigot, > and thus he or she does not condemn homosexuality. > > Respectfully, > > Spencer James > > ---PS--Research has confirmed that men who loudly bust on homosexuals or who > spout homophobia invariably have personal issues characterized by them > having homoerotic fantasies which produce undue anxiety for them. Freud > observed this nearly a century ago, and it has been confirmed with modern > sophisticated equipment. > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! 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