Keith, What, if anything makes you believe that the US has a long term plan ?? I have seen NO evidence of one.
On Mar 18, 8:17 am, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> wrote: > Good Morning Michael, > > That's a bit of an extreme assessment don't ya think? > > And Jacob? Geesh! Talk about revisionist history...... > > Do you think the United States big big really big long term plan, (as > Hornberger > alludes) was to have, " *a wasteland of death, destruction, depression, > and impoverishment. And it is headed by a dictatorial regime that is doing > all the things that the Saddam Hussein regime was doing -- killing people > who resist the dictatorship, incarcerating people without trial, torturing > them, and executing them. Worst of all, from the standpoint of the > interventionists, the regime is more pro-Iran than it is pro-U.S."* > > I think not. > > > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 9:48 AM, MJ <[email protected]> wrote: > > *"The reality is that Iraq is not a paradise. It is an absolute > > disaster. It is a wasteland of death, destruction, depression, and > > impoverishment. And it is headed by a dictatorial regime that is doing all > > the things that the Saddam Hussein regime was doing -- killing people who > > resist the dictatorship, incarcerating people without trial, torturing > > them, and executing them. Worst of all, from the standpoint of the > > interventionists, the regime is more pro-Iran than it is pro-U.S. > > "It’s no different in Afghanistan. That country is another wasteland of > > death, destruction, impoverishment, and depression. The Karzai regime is > > nothing but a crooked, corrupt, brutal pro-U.S. dictatorship." > > > *Tuesday, March 13, 2012 > > *The Time for Soul-Searching Has Arrived > > *by Jacob G. Hornberger > > > How ironic. Countless American Christians supported the U.S. government’s > > war of aggression on Iraq, and now consider this headline from last > > Sunday’s *New York Times: *“Exodus from North Signals Iraqi Christians’ > > Slow Decline.” > > > And now we learn that an American soldier went on a killing rampage in > > Afghanistan, walking into people’s homes in a brutal shoot-up that ended up > > killing 16 people, including women and children. > > > How come so many Americans still can’t recognize that the U.S. invasions > > and occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan have been disasters? Why must they > > feel compelled to support some type of mythical, delusionary picture that > > has nothing to do with reality? > > > Look at Iraq. At first U.S. officials convinced Americans to support an > > invasion of the country under a principle of preventive self-defense. > > Recall that U.S. officials said the same thing about Iraq that they’re now > > saying about Iran. Saddam Hussein is on the verge of producing a nuclear > > weapon. He intends to attack the United States. We have to attack now. The > > smoking gun might be a mushroom cloud rising over American cities. > > > All too many Americans simply deferred to authority, as they had been > > taught to do in the government-approved schools they were forced to attend. > > U.S. officials have access to information that we don’t have, they said. > > They would never lie to us. They don’t want to go to war against Iraq. > > They’re just protecting national security. > > > How many Americans even considered the possibility that this was all a > > charade, one designed to oust Saddam Hussein from power and replace him > > with a pro-U.S. dictator? It wasn’t that difficult to see. Don’t forget > > that that’s what those 11 years of brutal sanctions were all about -- the > > sanctions that killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children. The invasion > > of Iraq was intended to achieve what the sanctions had not achieved. It > > wasn’t difficult to frighten Americans into falling for anything after > > 9/11. > > > Indeed, what happened after it was determined that there were no WMDs in > > Iraq? Did Americans feel bad about having supported a war in which > > countless people had been killed and maimed, given that the U.S. government > > was wrong in its WMD assessment? Did soldiers have crises of conscience for > > having killed and maimed innocent people -- that is, people whose > > government never intended to attack the United States with WMDs -- people > > who were entirely innocent of the 9/11 attacks. Wouldn’t that have been the > > time for a massive congressional investigation into whether U.S. officials > > had intentionally deceived the American people regarding those WMDs? > > > Nope. Instead, people simply deferred to authority when U.S. officials > > shifted to the alternative justification for invading Iraq -- that U.S. > > officials actually loved the Iraqi people so much that they wanted to bring > > them freedom and democracy through a deadly military invasion and > > occupation. And to prove their love of the Iraqi people, U.S. officials > > made it clear that they were willing to kill and maim as many Iraqis as > > necessary to bring freedom and democracy to Iraq. > > > What a crock. If they loved the Iraqi people so much, how come there was > > never an upward limit on the number of Iraqis they were willing to kill and > > maim to achieve regime change? How come they treated Iraqis in Abu Ghraib > > prison the way that Saddam Hussein treated them? Is that the way you treat > > people whom you love? > > > And look at the result in Iraq. U.S. officials, along with their loyal > > interventionist supporters, continue to tell the American people that Iraq > > is now a paradise of freedom, democracy, and prosperity. > > > Oh? If Iraq is now such a paradise, then why is there an exodus of > > Christians from Iraq? > > > The reality is that Iraq is not a paradise. It is an absolute disaster. It > > is a wasteland of death, destruction, depression, and impoverishment. And > > it is headed by a dictatorial regime that is doing all the things that the > > Saddam Hussein regime was doing -- killing people who resist the > > dictatorship, incarcerating people without trial, torturing them, and > > executing them. Worst of all, from the standpoint of the interventionists, > > the regime is more pro-Iran than it is pro-U.S. > > > It’s no different in Afghanistan. That country is another wasteland of > > death, destruction, impoverishment, and depression. The Karzai regime is > > nothing but a crooked, corrupt, brutal pro-U.S. dictatorship. > > > Sure, it’s horrible that that U.S. soldier killed those 16 people, but > > that’s what U.S. forces have been doing ever since they invaded the > > country. Just think about all the wedding parties they’ve bombed and > > killed. Think about that Wikileaks video showing that helicopter gunship > > firing at people who were doing nothing more than rescuing people who had > > been injured from a U.S. attack. Think of all the people who have been > > killed, maimed, tortured, and incarcerated -- that is, people who had > > nothing to do with 9/11 and whose worst crime wastrying to rid their nation > > of an unlawful invader and occupier. Think about all the people who have > > been languishing in Bagram prison for years without trial. > > > Oh, but we’re not supposed to think about such things. We’re supposed to > > blindly accept the government’s pronouncements. We’re supposed to support > > the troops. We’re supposed to turn a blind eye to the reality of U.S. > > foreign policy. We’re supposed to suppress our consciences and simply look > > down, remaining silent or, better yet, supportive of whatever the > > government is doing. > > > Speaking of the law, where are the congressional declarations of war > > against Iraq and Afghanistan that the U.S. Constitution requires? > > Interventionists can rail against that requirement all they want, but the > > law is the law. If they don’t like the law, they have a remedy -- get it > > changed through constitutional amendment. As long as it’s the law, it is > > supposed to be followed. If it’s now, that makes the U.S. government the > > law-breaker. > > > The law wasn’t followed, not in Iraq and not in Afghanistan. That makes > > both wars illegal under our form of government. The U.S. government is a > > lawbreaker in both instances. The invasions and occupations of Iraq and > > Afghanistan, which have killed and maimed so many people and destroyed both > > countries, have both been conducted in violation of the highest law of our > > land, the Constitution, the law that we the people have imposed on our > > public officials. > > > And look at what these illegal wars, together with U.S. foreign policy > > before 9/11, have done to freedom in our country. We now live under the > > iron umbrella of a massive national security state, one that resembles that > > of the Soviet Union. The U.S. government now wields the authority to > > monitor and spy on Americans, in the name of national security and the war > > on terrorism. That’s what the KGB and, for that matter, the Gestapo did > > too. > > > The government also now wields the authority to round up Americans, > > incarcerate them for life without trial, torture them, and even execute > > them. The Gestapo and the KGB had the same authority. > > > Indeed, the government now wields the omnipotent power to assassinate > > Americans and everyone else in the world. Did the KGB and Gestapo have that > > authority? I would assume so but I’m not sure. > > > Meanwhile, Americans continue singing about how free they are. They > > continue praising the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan for “defending our > > freedoms.” No people in history better exemplify the words of Johann Goethe > > than the American people of our time: None are more hopelessly enslaved > > than those who falsely believe they are free. > > > The endless question for “national security” has destroyed all sense of > > morality and freedom in America. While the national security state > > continues to plunge our nation into moral debauchery through its antics > > overseas -- in the name of “national security” -- it continues to tighten > > the noose here at home with respect to our freedom. The tighter the noose > > is drawn, the more Americans sing about how free they are. > > > Meanwhile, the Empire is bankrupting us. Most Americans are struggling to > > make ends meet. At the same time, federal spending and debt > > ... > > read more » -- Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
