http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/ancient-history-us-conduct-middle-east-world-war-ii-folly-intervention
On Mar 18, 11:28 am, THE ANNOINTED ONE <[email protected]> wrote: > Keith, > > What, if anything makes you believe that the US has a long term > plan ?? I have seen NO evidence of one. > > On Mar 18, 8:17 am, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Good Morning Michael, > > > That's a bit of an extreme assessment don't ya think? > > > And Jacob? Geesh! Talk about revisionist history...... > > > Do you think the United States big big really big long term plan, (as > > Hornberger > > alludes) was to have, " *a wasteland of death, destruction, depression, > > and impoverishment. And it is headed by a dictatorial regime that is doing > > all the things that the Saddam Hussein regime was doing -- killing people > > who resist the dictatorship, incarcerating people without trial, torturing > > them, and executing them. Worst of all, from the standpoint of the > > interventionists, the regime is more pro-Iran than it is pro-U.S."* > > > I think not. > > > On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 9:48 AM, MJ <[email protected]> wrote: > > > *"The reality is that Iraq is not a paradise. It is an absolute > > > disaster. It is a wasteland of death, destruction, depression, and > > > impoverishment. And it is headed by a dictatorial regime that is doing all > > > the things that the Saddam Hussein regime was doing -- killing people who > > > resist the dictatorship, incarcerating people without trial, torturing > > > them, and executing them. Worst of all, from the standpoint of the > > > interventionists, the regime is more pro-Iran than it is pro-U.S. > > > "It’s no different in Afghanistan. That country is another wasteland of > > > death, destruction, impoverishment, and depression. The Karzai regime is > > > nothing but a crooked, corrupt, brutal pro-U.S. dictatorship." > > > > *Tuesday, March 13, 2012 > > > *The Time for Soul-Searching Has Arrived > > > *by Jacob G. Hornberger > > > > How ironic. Countless American Christians supported the U.S. government’s > > > war of aggression on Iraq, and now consider this headline from last > > > Sunday’s *New York Times: *“Exodus from North Signals Iraqi Christians’ > > > Slow Decline.” > > > > And now we learn that an American soldier went on a killing rampage in > > > Afghanistan, walking into people’s homes in a brutal shoot-up that ended > > > up > > > killing 16 people, including women and children. > > > > How come so many Americans still can’t recognize that the U.S. invasions > > > and occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan have been disasters? Why must they > > > feel compelled to support some type of mythical, delusionary picture that > > > has nothing to do with reality? > > > > Look at Iraq. At first U.S. officials convinced Americans to support an > > > invasion of the country under a principle of preventive self-defense. > > > Recall that U.S. officials said the same thing about Iraq that they’re now > > > saying about Iran. Saddam Hussein is on the verge of producing a nuclear > > > weapon. He intends to attack the United States. We have to attack now. The > > > smoking gun might be a mushroom cloud rising over American cities. > > > > All too many Americans simply deferred to authority, as they had been > > > taught to do in the government-approved schools they were forced to > > > attend. > > > U.S. officials have access to information that we don’t have, they said. > > > They would never lie to us. They don’t want to go to war against Iraq. > > > They’re just protecting national security. > > > > How many Americans even considered the possibility that this was all a > > > charade, one designed to oust Saddam Hussein from power and replace him > > > with a pro-U.S. dictator? It wasn’t that difficult to see. Don’t forget > > > that that’s what those 11 years of brutal sanctions were all about -- the > > > sanctions that killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children. The > > > invasion > > > of Iraq was intended to achieve what the sanctions had not achieved. It > > > wasn’t difficult to frighten Americans into falling for anything after > > > 9/11. > > > > Indeed, what happened after it was determined that there were no WMDs in > > > Iraq? Did Americans feel bad about having supported a war in which > > > countless people had been killed and maimed, given that the U.S. > > > government > > > was wrong in its WMD assessment? Did soldiers have crises of conscience > > > for > > > having killed and maimed innocent people -- that is, people whose > > > government never intended to attack the United States with WMDs -- people > > > who were entirely innocent of the 9/11 attacks. Wouldn’t that have been > > > the > > > time for a massive congressional investigation into whether U.S. officials > > > had intentionally deceived the American people regarding those WMDs? > > > > Nope. Instead, people simply deferred to authority when U.S. officials > > > shifted to the alternative justification for invading Iraq -- that U.S. > > > officials actually loved the Iraqi people so much that they wanted to > > > bring > > > them freedom and democracy through a deadly military invasion and > > > occupation. And to prove their love of the Iraqi people, U.S. officials > > > made it clear that they were willing to kill and maim as many Iraqis as > > > necessary to bring freedom and democracy to Iraq. > > > > What a crock. If they loved the Iraqi people so much, how come there was > > > never an upward limit on the number of Iraqis they were willing to kill > > > and > > > maim to achieve regime change? How come they treated Iraqis in Abu Ghraib > > > prison the way that Saddam Hussein treated them? Is that the way you treat > > > people whom you love? > > > > And look at the result in Iraq. U.S. officials, along with their loyal > > > interventionist supporters, continue to tell the American people that Iraq > > > is now a paradise of freedom, democracy, and prosperity. > > > > Oh? If Iraq is now such a paradise, then why is there an exodus of > > > Christians from Iraq? > > > > The reality is that Iraq is not a paradise. It is an absolute disaster. It > > > is a wasteland of death, destruction, depression, and impoverishment. And > > > it is headed by a dictatorial regime that is doing all the things that the > > > Saddam Hussein regime was doing -- killing people who resist the > > > dictatorship, incarcerating people without trial, torturing them, and > > > executing them. Worst of all, from the standpoint of the interventionists, > > > the regime is more pro-Iran than it is pro-U.S. > > > > It’s no different in Afghanistan. That country is another wasteland of > > > death, destruction, impoverishment, and depression. The Karzai regime is > > > nothing but a crooked, corrupt, brutal pro-U.S. dictatorship. > > > > Sure, it’s horrible that that U.S. soldier killed those 16 people, but > > > that’s what U.S. forces have been doing ever since they invaded the > > > country. Just think about all the wedding parties they’ve bombed and > > > killed. Think about that Wikileaks video showing that helicopter gunship > > > firing at people who were doing nothing more than rescuing people who had > > > been injured from a U.S. attack. Think of all the people who have been > > > killed, maimed, tortured, and incarcerated -- that is, people who had > > > nothing to do with 9/11 and whose worst crime wastrying to rid their > > > nation > > > of an unlawful invader and occupier. Think about all the people who have > > > been languishing in Bagram prison for years without trial. > > > > Oh, but we’re not supposed to think about such things. We’re supposed to > > > blindly accept the government’s pronouncements. We’re supposed to support > > > the troops. We’re supposed to turn a blind eye to the reality of U.S. > > > foreign policy. We’re supposed to suppress our consciences and simply look > > > down, remaining silent or, better yet, supportive of whatever the > > > government is doing. > > > > Speaking of the law, where are the congressional declarations of war > > > against Iraq and Afghanistan that the U.S. Constitution requires? > > > Interventionists can rail against that requirement all they want, but the > > > law is the law. If they don’t like the law, they have a remedy -- get it > > > changed through constitutional amendment. As long as it’s the law, it is > > > supposed to be followed. If it’s now, that makes the U.S. government the > > > law-breaker. > > > > The law wasn’t followed, not in Iraq and not in Afghanistan. That makes > > > both wars illegal under our form of government. The U.S. government is a > > > lawbreaker in both instances. The invasions and occupations of Iraq and > > > Afghanistan, which have killed and maimed so many people and destroyed > > > both > > > countries, have both been conducted in violation of the highest law of our > > > land, the Constitution, the law that we the people have imposed on our > > > public officials. > > > > And look at what these illegal wars, together with U.S. foreign policy > > > before 9/11, have done to freedom in our country. We now live under the > > > iron umbrella of a massive national security state, one that resembles > > > that > > > of the Soviet Union. The U.S. government now wields the authority to > > > monitor and spy on Americans, in the name of national security and the war > > > on terrorism. That’s what the KGB and, for that matter, the Gestapo did > > > too. > > > > The government also now wields the authority to round up Americans, > > > incarcerate them for life without trial, torture them, and even execute > > > them. The Gestapo and the KGB had the same authority. > > > > Indeed, the government now wields the omnipotent power to assassinate > > > Americans and everyone else in the world. Did the KGB and Gestapo have > > > that > > > authority? I would assume so but I’m not sure. > > > > Meanwhile, Americans continue singing about how free they are. They > > > continue praising the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan for “defending our > > > freedoms.” No people in history better exemplify the words of Johann > > > Goethe > > > than the American people of our time: None are more > > ... > > read more » -- Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
