On 13/11/2004 at 12:21 AM I saw Steve Grammont type: >on 13/11/2004 at 2:31 AM I saw Ben Kennedy type: >>How do you know that PowerMail is idle (i.e., not writing to the >>database) at the time your system is going down? > >Because there is no activity. It is not tasked with receiving email or >sending it out, and therefore shouldn't be doing anything with the index >files. Also as you might know, the latest version appears to have turned >off background indexing (which is irrelevant anyway because we're talking >about hours unattended passing before my system crashes).
Do you have background indexing turned off in the preferences? In reference to the latest version, it's still on here. >>Maybe there is an electrical problem with a hard drive, such that PM >>begins to check mail, spins up disk, starts to write, loses power. > >That is grasping at straws. And I think straws is what you are down to considering. Other issues have been considered, discussed and evaluated. By your own admission something is wrong. When you've ruled out the obvious, that leaves the obscure. >>Of course I am purely speculating. But if a file is left in an >>inconsistent state on disk, it will result in data loss or at least >>necessitate maintenance; since that is the symptom, we can induce that >>for SOME REASON the database is in use or otherwise inconsistent when >>your system dies. > >Correct. And the most likely reason is that something isn't being "put >to bed" correctly by PM. Something is being left untidy and when the >system goes down it stays that way. And why this should require a >complete, ground up rebuild (instead of a minor repair) also is a >question since Jerome seemed to imply that PM is capable of partial repairs. I have a hard time believing that PowerMail is failing to write something out correctly or finish a critical task. If this were the case, problems such as this would be endemic to the client and show up all across it's user base. I support PowerMail on several systems ranging from one lagging OS 9 user on a beige G3 to iBooks, PowerBooks, iMacs, and PowerMacs of all sizes, shapes and flavors across multiple countries and localizations. We've had some issues, but nothing that has resulted in the serious problems you are facing. >>To give confidence in PowerMail's robustness, I just saved this message >>as I was typing it, then force-quit PowerMail point blank. I then >>restarted it, and up it came -- no database recovery or re-indexing required. > >This doesn't mean anything. You would have to be using the same exact >system as me for this to be relevant. I can put a gun to my head and >pull the trigger with nothing happening. But if my gun is unloaded and >yours is... your results would be a lot different :-) > >Note that the reason why I started participating on this list was due to >frequent 16 hour rebuilds. I found out that two interactive bugs with >the MacOS were responsible for these crashes and that the lengthy rebuild >is also unnecessary (in theory at least). Did you have these problems? >No, but I certainly did and Jermone's helpful tips fixed my problems. True, your system is unique. If for no other reason than you type different words on your keyboard than I do. I think Ben and Hiro were trying very hard to help isolate some of those differences. Don't dismiss them out of hand. >>Therefore, absent your observation of what the system is doing when it >>dies, I would tend to believe that disk activity may well be going on. > >There shouldn't be any activity, therefore there shouldn't be any >corruption. And even if there is activity, why is the entire 100,000 >email Search index zapped into a useless heap of digital trash? That >doesn't sound right to me either. >On 13/11/2004 at 7:05 AM I saw A-NO-NE Music type: >>Now back to your machine problem, did you take a look at system.log? >>Have you ran Hardware Diag? > >I don't know how to do either thing. However, I do run the latest >version of Norton frequently. Just ran it 2 days ago. No problems with >the drive that can be detected, no other problems with my system as far >as I can tell. And that still doesn't address the PM corruption issue >because although it might be triggering the corruption, it isn't causing it. If there is indeed activity when there isn't supposed to be any, then there is a step in the right direction. I would start looking for other problems that may be lying under the surface. Hiro's suggestion of system.log and the Hardware Diagnostic are good ones. To just dismiss help or potential solutions is not a good idea. The system log is most easily viewed from the console. Applications->Utilities->Console and then select File->Open System Log from the menu. The Hardware Diagnostic is on one of the CD's that came with your machine. It will require a reboot and will check your hardware for subtle problems that may exist. These are lower level tests that I don't think Norton could ever hope to check, but I may be wrong. I was burned by Norton at two times in the past and so don't recommend or use them. I hope these things can help you. I hope Ben and Hiro continue to post helpful thoughts and helps. I understand that it can be frustrating to keep trying to solve a problem and bang your head on the same wall. kename -- Vedetta-Online
