I'd like to put in my 5 cents worth of opinion. :-) -----------
.and we saw the picture of a 9 years old Palestinian boy, equipped with explosives under his jacket, who has been instructed by his own people to approach toward the Israelis soldiers... ++ im sure you saw also the picture of several 9 year-old Palestinian boys who had been killed by the israeli missiles launched from the apache chopper, didnt you? ------------ am: kedua hal diatas berbeda. Anak2 palestina tsb. diajar dari kecil utk sengaja membunuh orang. Ini adalah salah satu form dari child abuse oleh (orang Palestina) yang dewasa. Sedangkan baik anak2 maupun orang sipil Palestina yang terbunuh oleh missiles nya Israel adalah efek sampingan yang negatif dari pada tujuan misil tsb. yaitu orang Hamas, umpamanya. Tujuan misil tsb. bukan orang sipil. -------------- .... and we watched at the TV and witnessing the invasion of Iraqi's army into Kuweit... ++ and we watched at the TV the invasion of US Army into Iraq. And now, we are still watching them still there, pretending to be heros which turn out to be sheer evil, just like tyrant Saddam Hussein the person the US claim to be evil. --------------- am: Kasih contoh dong "sheer evil" nya us army. Rupanya us army tsb. lebih jahat dari saddam hussein. Mungkin anda mempunyai berita2 mengenai 'sheer evil'nya us army yang saya tidak tahu menahu - tolong dimuat disini supaya pengetahuan saya bertambah. terima kasih. -------------------- .....and we read in the newspapers about the killings of the Kurds and the Shiites by the Saddam's regime... ++ during boycotting of 10 year-old Iraq under UN which actually under influence of US.. about 500.000 children died. Now, after invasion under little Bush around 40.000 - 60.000 iraqis died. US only 1000 guys died. ------------------- am: Anda mungkn lupa alasan dari pada di boycotnya irak? Ataukah boycot tsb. tidak ada alasan sama sekali, melainkan hanyalah perbuatan se-mena2 PBB karena ditekan oleh Amrik? Coba baca lagi dengan teliti berita2 mengenai alasan dari pada boikot tsb. Begitupun anda lupa bahwa Saddam selama itu membangun puluhan istana yang mewah dan megah? Apakah anda lupa akan adanya oil for food program dimana Saddam diperbolehkan menjual minyak utk memenuhi kebutuhan rakyatnya? Program tsb. di selewengkan - dan yang ikut untung atas penyelewengan oil for food program adalah antara lain putranya kofi anan, dan presiden nkri. Begitu juga konconya presiden Perancis. Mengenai orang irak yang mati: itu kan termasuk juga orang2 irak yang dibunuh oleh orang2 irak sendiri. Belum lagi orang2 irak yang jadi korban sebab tentara Saddam, dan sesudah Saddam jatuh, teroris, bersembunyi diantara penduduk. Kita ambil sebagai contoh itu orang2 irak yang sengaja dibunuh oleh teroris pada waktu mereka sedang ngantri untuk melamar pekerjaan, umpamanya. Penduduk irak yang mati karena SENGAJA dibunuh oleh tentara as, saya belum lagi melihatnya di koran2. ---------------- .....and we read in the newspapers about how corrupt the members of the Palestinian government are.. +++ you are right this time. the Palestinian gov. are corrupt and tyrant. even the late Edward Said not allowed to enter to palestine by yasser arafat. palestinians people gotta struggle in two front: against the occupation of israeli and against their own government. ------------ am: Kalau negara2 arab yang lain tidak me-nyerang Israel ber-kali2, maka tidak akan ada 'occupation' oleh Israel. Untuk mengetahui sejarah dari pada pergolakan timur tengah, sebaiknya saudara tidak hanya membaca berita2 di koran2 arab atau indonesia. Baca resolusi2 pbb dan di website pbb pun ada latar belakang mengenai ber-bagai resolusi2 tsb, terutama mengenai resolusi 242 yang kelihatannya paling sering di sebut2 oleh orang2 palestina atau dunia arab. Begitupun banyak website yang lain. --------------- there are so many things to blame...all around the world... but never forget the also the wrongdoings our friends did, do and are still doing.. +++ ofcourse, my dear friend. we should not shut our eyes up. we should keep them open towards everything. we gotta see and critical and lets not forget to appreciate if we see something worth enough for us to do so. what makes me wonder is that: we tend to praise everything that "our friends" doing and defends every mistakes that "our friends" is or has been doing. that's something that i see every now and then in some comments posted here. -------- am: Mengenai 'mistake" - semua orang tentu saja melakukan kesalahan. Bedanya adalah, siapa yang melakukan kesalahan yang paling besar, dan juga siapa yang "sengaja" melakukan kesalahan tsb. --------------- European Union transferred regurlarly money to assist the Palestinian leader running their administration... +++ this should be appreciated. but dont forget, that the eu also very critical toward israel which easily come into the deft ear of israelis gov. because they know, nothing the world can do against israel, not even UN, as far as the US still nodding its head for everything the israeli gov. doing. -------------- "...not even UN, as far as the US still nodding its head for everything the israeli gov. doing. : am: coba kasih contoh dong. Jangan hanya 'general indictment' seperti itu. ------------ ...but instead of constructing the Nation..they keep talking about to kill or to be killed... ...is killing the only one the people in Palestina interrested in? +++ just watch bbc, cnn, read the times (london), the guardian (london) and IHT (paris). how many people has been killed by palestinians and how many by israelis? when you know the equation, then start thinking all over again.. --------- am: Sekali lagi lihat paragrap saya diatas mengenai yang terbunuh dan sengaja dibunuh. Jika teroris hamas dan plo tidak bersembunyi diantara penduduk, dan tidak mengajarkan anak2 mereka untuk melakukan perbuatan teror, maka nistyaya korban orang palestina akan jauh lebih sedikit. ------------- in the name of Allah, in the name of justice? +++ no cause whatsoever can justify any means. including cause for independent on the part of palestinian ppl or cause of "self-defense" on the parat of israeli. ---------- "....cause for independence on the part of palestinian ppl". am: Coba buka buku sejarah dan lihat siapa yang menduduki West bank dan Gaza strip antara tahun 1948 dan 1967. Tahun berapa plo dibentuk? ----------------- one thing we gotta be aware when we talk about this: that we are outsiders. and therefore, we should fully unbias and impartial in making any judgement and 'analysis'. i dont think we should judge something based on like or dislike. when we talk about israel and palestine, we should use the internationl law as the standard of judgement, the Covenant, the assessment of human right watch, UN Resolution, etc. we can start from there. -------------- am: Karena itu pelajari sejarah dari permulaan konflik ini. ----------- --- On Sat 09/25, Faruq Saniyasnain < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: From: Faruq Saniyasnain [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 21:45:59 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: [ppiindia] Allawi-Shalom handshake --- Danardono HADINOTO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:<br><br><br>---------------------------------<br>...and we saw the picture of a 9 years old Palestinian<br>boy, equipped with explosives under his jacket, who<br>has been instructed by his own people to approach<br>toward the Israelis soldiers...<br><br>++ im sure you saw also the picture of several 9<br>year-old Palestinian boys who had been killed by the<br>israeli missiles launched from the apache chopper,<br>didnt you?<br> <br>.... and we watched at the TV and witnessing the<br>invasion of Iraqi's army into Kuweit...<br><br>++ and we watched at the TV the invasion of US Army<br>into Iraq. And now, we are still watching them still<br>there, pretending to be heros which turn out to be<br>sheer evil, just like tyrant Saddam Hussein the person<br>the US claim to be evil.<br> <br>.....and we read in the newspapers about the killings<br>of the Kurds and the Shiites by the Saddam's regime...<br><br>++ during boycotting of 10 year-old Iraq under UN<br>which actually under influence of US.. about 500.000<br>children died. Now, after invasion under little Bush<br>around 40.000 - 60.000 iraqis died. US only 1000 guys<br>died.<br> <br>.....and we read in the newspapers about how corrupt<br>the members of the Palestinian government are..<br><br>+++ you are right this time. the Palestinian gov. are<br>corrupt and tyrant. even the late Edward Said not<br>allowed to enter to palestine by yasser arafat.<br>palestinians people gotta struggle in two front:<br>against the occupation of israeli and against their<br>own government. <br> <br>there are so many things to blame...all around the<br>world...<br>but never forget the also the wrongdoings our friends<br>did, do and are still doing..<br><br>+++ ofcourse, my dear friend. we should not shut our<br>eyes up. we should keep them open towards everything.<br>we gotta see and critical and lets not forget to<br>appreciate if we see something worth enough for us to<br>do so. what makes me wonder is that: we tend to praise<br>everything that "our friends" doing and defends every<br>mistakes that "our friends" is or has been doing.<br>that's something that i see every now and then in some<br>comments posted here.<br> <br>European Union transferred regurlarly money to assist<br>the Palestinian leader running their administration...<br><br>+++ this should be appreciated. but dont forget, that<br>the eu also very critical toward israel which easily<br>come into the deft ear of israelis gov. because they<br>know, nothing the world can do against israel, not<br>even UN, as far as the US still nodding its head for<br>everything the israeli gov. doing. <br> <br>...but instead of constructing the Nation..they keep<br>talking about to kill or to be killed...<br>...is killing the only one the people in Palestina <br>interrested in?<br><br>+++ just watch bbc, cnn, read the times (london), the<br>guardian (london) and IHT (paris). how many people has<br>been killed by palestinians and how many by israelis?<br>when you know the equation, then start thinking all<br>over again..<br> <br>in the name of Allah, in the name of justice?<br><br>+++ no cause whatsoever can justify any means.<br>including cause for independent on the part of<br>palestinian ppl or cause of "self-defense" on the<br>parat of israeli. <br><br>one thing we gotta be aware when we talk about this:<br>that we are outsiders. and therefore, we should fully<br>unbias and impartial in making any judgement and<br>'analysis'. i dont think we should judge something<br>based on like or dislike. <br><br>when we talk about israel and palestine, we should use<br>the internationl law as the standard of judgement, the<br>Covenant, the assessment of human right watch, UN<br>Resolution, etc. we can start from there. <br><br>this is also as a response for mr mustadjab<br><br>cheers and peace from MANU, <br><br>=====<br>Faruq Saniyasnain<br><br><br> <br> <br> <br>___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! 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