Thanks Raul. This standalone example doesn't work on Windows 7 too! I followed your advice of removing the wh lines (replacing them with wd was dumb on my part) and I can get the popup to show up on my windows machine. I'll try it on my Mac in the evening.
On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 1:53 PM, Raul Miller <[email protected]> wrote: > Hmm... > > First off, note that 13!:8 signals an error, and its optional left > argument is the text of the signaled error. > > Second, note that in this context, the sentence wd ::(''"_) 'qer' > produces the result 'wh : command not found' and that was after the > signaled instance, so it's likely that 'wd : command not found: wd' > came from that same sentence. > > In other words, this looks like version drift in j8's implementation > of wd along with something less than ideal in the error reporting > mechanism (which should be indicating an error in the wh command when > signalling that error - the dual appearance of 'wd' was misleading). > > And, if I strip out the two wh statements from the definition of > GETURL, trying test'' again gives me a popup dialog. > > Unfortunately, there's no event handlers for the buttons on that > popup, so it's inert, and shutting it down requires either shutting > down J or running a sentence such as wd 'pclose' > > So you'll probably want to spend a little time reading the docs on wd. > > Currently, that seems to mean: > > J602: > http://www.jsoftware.com/docs/help602/user/wd.htm > http://www.jsoftware.com/docs/help602/user/wd_commands.htm > > J701: > http://www.jsoftware.com/docs/help701/user/wd_commands.htm > > J8: > http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Guides/Window%20Driver > > With the http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Guides/J8%20Standalone example > apparently reflecting an early version of J8's wd. > > Perhaps it would be best to update the J8 Standalone page by removing > the wh commands from that example? But of course there are other > problems here which also deserve some attention. > > I hope this helps. > > Thanks, > > -- > Raul > > On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Vijay Lulla <[email protected]> wrote: >> I tried the example listed on this page but I'm getting errors (I had >> problems with wh so I replaced them with wd). Specifically, I get >> >> test '' >> |wd : command not found: wd >> | (wd ::(''"_)'qer') (13!:8)3 >> >> However, if I type wd on my ide session I get >> wd >> 3 : 0"1 >> smoutput^:(1<Debugwd_jqtide_) y >> 'r c l p n'=. wd1 (,y);(#,y);(,2);(,0) >> select. r >> case. 0 do. >> EMPTY >> case. _1 do. >> memr p,0,n >> case. _2 do. >> _2 [\ <;._2 memr p,0,n >> case. do. >> if. d=. Debugwd_jqtide_ do. >> smoutput^:(1=Debugwd_jqtide_) y >> smoutput '**ERROR**' >> Debugwd_jqtide_=: d [ e=. wd ::(''"_) 'qer' [ Debugwd_jqtide_=: 0 >> smoutput e >> e (13!:8) 3 >> else. >> (wd ::(''"_) 'qer') (13!:8) 3 >> end. >> end. >> ) >> >> Details for J are: >> JVERSION >> Engine: j803/2014-10-19-11:11:11 >> Library: 8.03.10 >> Qt IDE: 1.3.1/5.3.2 >> Platform: Darwin 64 >> Installer: J803 install >> InstallPath: /users/v/code/apl/j64-803 >> >> How do I resolve this error? >> Thanks, >> Vijay. >> >> On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 9:27 AM, chris burke <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> Has anyone built a standalone Mac app using JQt? >>> >>> Please see http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Guides/J8%20Standalone >>> >>> On 25 February 2015 at 06:09, Ian Clark <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> @Henry -- thanks for your comments. Great! >>>> >>>> IMO this is just the sort of discussion I would like to see aired in >>>> public. Though maybe do the more philosophical stuff in Chat? >>>> Ideally I would like a summary of the J community's findings >>>> documented on a Jwiki page for wider consumption. >>>> >>>> Further comments in-line… >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 4:27 AM, Henry Rich <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> > We should take this off-group, but I'm replying in public because if I'm >>>> > wrong I would like to be corrected (and I'm only an amateur >>>> statistician): >>>> >>>> That's exactly why I'm appealing to the forum too. >>>> …To the annoyance of Real Statisticians, no doubt, because this must >>>> be elementary stuff to them. >>>> But Wikipedia -- which you'd expect to give simple answers to simple >>>> questions which laypeople want to ask and need to ask -- approaches >>>> the whole issue like a cat circling a bowl of hot porridge. >>>> …If you're a layperson, just try working out how to score the "Lady >>>> Tasting Tea" experiment from these pages… >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binomial_test >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binomial_distribution >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli_distribution >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli_trial >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli_process >>>> >>>> As a Human Factors *engineer* -- I've been a professional *user* of >>>> hypothesis-testing but an amateur Statistician. >>>> …Or should that be Probabilist? Or even Epistemologist? >>>> >>>> Plus… now I'm retired, I'm getting rusty. >>>> >>>> Plus… I can't find precise enough documentation of JAL verb: binomialprob. >>>> Like… what's the semantics of the 3rd entry of (y) (styled "minimum >>>> number of successes (s)") when y has only 3 entries? Can it be called >>>> "minimum" any more? What I've concluded, after a bit of RTFC plus a >>>> few idiot tests, is: >>>> >>>> (binomialprob 0.5,N,s) -: (binomialprob 0.5,N,s,N) >>>> >>>> Plus… has this doggie got 2 tails or just 1?? >>>> >>>> >>>> > I think you are calling binomialprob correctly but I have some >>>> objections to >>>> > your use of the result. >>>> > >>>> > 1. I think your rejectH0 should use 1 - -: CONFIDENCE instead of >>>> > 1-CONFIDENCE. >>>> > >>>> > The question is, "How likely is a result as weird as I am seeing, >>>> assuming >>>> > H0?" You should not bias "weird" by assuming that weird results will be >>>> > correct guesses - they could just as likely be incorrect guesses. To >>>> ensure >>>> > that you reject 95% of the purely-chance deviations of a certain size, >>>> that >>>> > 95% should be centered around the mean, not loaded toward one side. >>>> >>>> The "1-tail-or-2?" question -- or so I thought at first. >>>> But it's deeper than that. It's much more serious. Serious enough to >>>> be the key issue for me. >>>> Which is precisely why I want to be *sure*. Sure enough to argue my >>>> case to a determined layperson. Not merely make an inspired guess, as >>>> most people would in an industrial situation (…knowing no one else >>>> knows enough statistics to dare to challenge you!) >>>> >>>> What I understand @Henry to be saying is: should the 5% area under the >>>> binomial distribution curve, which sets the pass/fail threshold, be >>>> shared equally between both tails? Even if one tail happens to be in >>>> fairyland? >>>> >>>> What I mean by that last remark is… >>>> If The Lady Tasting Tea (TLTT) gets every trial *wrong*, then she's >>>> *not* a monkey flipping a fair coin. It's a very biased coin! >>>> She is sending a strong signal that she can be depended upon (…with X% >>>> confidence) to make the wrong decision. >>>> But I don't want to credit her this as evidence to support her claim >>>> she can tell the difference (…at least, not tell it correctly). >>>> This is what makes TLTT different from detecting a biased coin by >>>> repeated tosses. >>>> >>>> What's to do? >>>> >>>> >>>> > are there really people who think optical might be better than USB?? >>>> >>>> Oh-ho-ho! -- yes, they can still be found. >>>> Hi-Fi buffs have not become extinct, and the (undead?) audio industry >>>> still lives off their lifeblood. >>>> >>>> >>>> > This is digital communication, no? 44K samples/sec, 2 channels, 20 >>>> bits/sample, >>>> > needs 2Mb/sec max out of 480Mb/sec rated USB speed... how could that not >>>> be >>>> > enough? >>>> >>>> My interlocutor claims it's like the group was there, in his front >>>> room, playing "just for him". >>>> Now this guy is an intelligent chap, a developer of digital musical >>>> instruments and a sound engineer as well as being an accomplished >>>> musician. He sends me two MP3s (…yes, lossy MP3s!) to support his >>>> claim. I drop these into Audacity and inspect the waveform at very >>>> fine detail and I cannot for the life of me detect any difference. >>>> So I know, as sure as God made little Apples, that I'm not going to >>>> *hear* any difference. >>>> But I've got lo-fi ears. In fact I'm half-deaf. Most of what I hear I >>>> imagine. Mostly I get it right with people (I think…) But I don't know >>>> what subliminal cues I'm using to do so. It's the "clever Hans" >>>> effect. >>>> >>>> Maybe there are people who *can* tell the difference? But from my >>>> pondering the figures, like you have, plus eyeballing the waveforms, >>>> we're talking about magical superpowers here. >>>> >>>> >>>> > It was ever thus... when I last looked at this sort of thing, 20 years >>>> back, >>>> > the debate was whether big fat expensive cables would make a difference. >>>> > Bob Pease, a respected analog engineer, pointed out that it was >>>> impossible, >>>> > and James Randi had a bet that no one could discern $7000 cables from >>>> > ordinary speaker wire, but still the non-EEs have their superstitions...] >>>> >>>> That's around the time my son was spending all his pocket-money on big >>>> fat speaker cables and gold-plated jack-plugs. >>>> Now he's teaching a Theory of Knowledge course (…yes, Epistemology!) >>>> at a school in Hong Kong. He is greedy to get his hands on my little >>>> program, and dispel a few lingering superstitions masquerading as >>>> received wisdom about science. >>>> >>>> I want to package it up and send it to him, but I don't want to ask >>>> him to install J on his Mac because not only will he grouse like heck >>>> about fairy software but it will discourage him sharing the app with >>>> his colleages, who share his sentiments. >>>> >>>> I know how to package up a standalone Mac app in J602, but J602 and my >>>> packaged apps no longer work out-of-the-box on the Mac under Yosemite >>>> (it's to do with 32-bit Java). Has anyone built a standalone Mac app >>>> using JQt? If so I'd dearly love to see a monkey-see monkey-do page on >>>> Jwiki. I'll write one myself, but it'll be a year before I can get >>>> round to it. >>>> >>>> >>>> > 2. Why 95%? I would fear that someone who is thinking about optical >>>> cable >>>> > would rest uneasy with a 5-10% chance that they have not spent enough on >>>> > quality audio. Why not simply report, "A monkey with a coin to toss >>>> would >>>> > do as well as you y% of the time. Most researchers accept results as >>>> > significant only if the monkey would do as well less than 5% of the time. >>>> > Take more samples if you want less uncertainty." >>>> >>>> 95% is just for the sake of argument. 99% is there as an option. IMO >>>> more options are neither necessary nor advisable. >>>> The number of trials can be varied too. I'd like to offer 10 or 20 >>>> trials. But 20 gets tedious, so I'm offering the option to give up >>>> when you're bored and score the number you've done. >>>> (This is an app for discretionary users -- we're not paying our >>>> subjects $10 a session.) >>>> >>>> Anything under 7 trials fails to reject H0 however many successes. But >>>> that's dependent on the value of CONFIDENCE and how it's to be >>>> applied. But only to make a difference of 1 or maybe 2 trials. >>>> I'm finding in practice that with such a low number of trials as 10, >>>> anything short of 100% correct is statistical hairsplitting when it >>>> comes to rejecting H0. With 20 trials there's more leeway: you're >>>> allowed to get 3 or 4 wrong before the app rubbishes you. >>>> >>>> As for your wording: it's theoretically sound, but a trifle insulting. >>>> Performing musicians have sizeable egos and wouldn't like to be rated >>>> along with performing monkeys. :-) >>>> >>>> Ian >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
